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Old 04-30-2018, 04:03 PM   #1
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New Aire Hydraulic issues

It's always something ...
This time my full wall slide would creep in a couple of inches within a few minutes of deploying. I cycled the slide in and out. I'm on a relatively level cement pad; tried redeploying the entire coach. No help. I called Newmar support and they were stumped (never heard of such a thing). Said I should check the HWH levels and if that's not it, I'd need to have it serviced.
No sign of leaks anywhere (no fluid on ground).

So, they told me that to properly check the fluid, slides would have to be *IN* and jacks *UP*.

I checked, and the dipstick was dry (it only checks the first couple inches). So I put THREE quarts of ATF in until I had a reading. I cycled the slide a couple times and then deployed it and the opposing slide for the sofa. I checked outside and I had a MASSIVE pool of fluid pouring out of the reservoir -- it had overflowed. Well, I guess checking the levels while slides are in is wrong? Not sure what else that could have been.

I cleaned up the mess and then carefully deployed the jacks. That, at least, lowered the levels in the tank (I checked the levels before and after).

Now that I've been deployed for a while, the FWS is sitting where it's supposed to -- it's not creeping in anymore.

Dunno what that was all about. Looking forward to comments from those with experience!
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Old 04-30-2018, 05:31 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinergi View Post
It's always something ...
This time my full wall slide would creep in a couple of inches within a few minutes of deploying. I cycled the slide in and out. I'm on a relatively level cement pad; tried redeploying the entire coach. No help. I called Newmar support and they were stumped (never heard of such a thing). Said I should check the HWH levels and if that's not it, I'd need to have it serviced.
No sign of leaks anywhere (no fluid on ground).

So, they told me that to properly check the fluid, slides would have to be *IN* and jacks *UP*.

I checked, and the dipstick was dry (it only checks the first couple inches). So I put THREE quarts of ATF in until I had a reading. I cycled the slide a couple times and then deployed it and the opposing slide for the sofa. I checked outside and I had a MASSIVE pool of fluid pouring out of the reservoir -- it had overflowed. Well, I guess checking the levels while slides are in is wrong? Not sure what else that could have been.

I cleaned up the mess and then carefully deployed the jacks. That, at least, lowered the levels in the tank (I checked the levels before and after).

Now that I've been deployed for a while, the FWS is sitting where it's supposed to -- it's not creeping in anymore.

Dunno what that was all about. Looking forward to comments from those with experience!

It has to be only one thing . . .

It's that wonderful dealer who fixed your slide.

It's my guess that you unintentionally bleed the air out of the system and fixed it.

Just wait till you hear my story!

Mike
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Old 04-30-2018, 06:09 PM   #3
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It has to be only one thing . . .

It's that wonderful dealer who fixed your slide.

It's my guess that you unintentionally bleed the air out of the system and fixed it.

Just wait till you hear my story!

Mike


Hm. Iíd be surprised if they did anything with the fluid given the issue it had (and is a different slide). I also successfully used the slide twice since then. The question Iíll want a clear answer to is what configuration to check the fluid levels at.
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Old 04-30-2018, 06:19 PM   #4
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Slides in, jacks up for fluid. The creep is most likely air in the lines.
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Old 04-30-2018, 06:38 PM   #5
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Slides in, jacks up for fluid. The creep is most likely air in the lines.


Yeah thatís what I did and yet it spewed what looked like at least a quart into the cement pad when it overflowed.
I wonder if fluid use is different for the slide that goes out and then down? Should have checked after each slide.
The fact that I added 3 quarts canít be good. I wish I knew how much overflowed.
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Old 05-01-2018, 09:11 AM   #6
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Test with slides OUT

HWH confirms the *opposite* of what we've all been believing. You test the fluid levels with the slides OUT on these slides because the cylinders are retracted when the slide is out. Jacks are still up for the test. Newmar is updating the documentation as a result of this encounter.

That explains why I dumped so much fluid when I put the slides out. Joe @ HWH didn't think I had an issue with air, but rather probably some junk stuck in the solenoid that created a leak which I've cleared by cycling the slide so many times. If it happens again, we'd be replacing the solenoid.

There is a 10 micron filter in the tank (virtually maintenance free) as well as a magnetic catch.
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:19 AM   #7
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I had the same questions as you for checking the HWH oil level. Newmar CS stated check with slides in and jacks up. Found the HWH manual on Newgle and discovered the opposite. Just as you did. I needed to check mine because one of the jacks had a fitting that leaked. I needed to add 1/4 quart. BTW, Newmar doesn't use the clear HWH fluid so if we ever get a leak in the basement its gong to be a real mess.

Baffles me how CS can give wrong info on something so basic. This has taught me to seek out the mfg manuals on everything on the coach.

This is from the HWH Manual:
All jacks and the gen slide should be completely retracted before checking the oil level. Rooms with a USO mechanism, level out or straight out, should be fully extended to check the oil level. The HWH step, if so equipped, should be fully retracted. The oil reservoir is part of the pump / manifold assembly. The oil level is checked and filled through the breather cap. Clear any dirt away from the breather / filler cap before removing. The oil level should be within one inch of the top of the reservoir. Most breather caps have a dipstick.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:26 AM   #8
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This fill procedure is a loaded question and myth, while it should simple to address, everyone you talk to has a different idea regarding the fill.

How confusing is this statment from HWH!

All jacks and the gen slide should be completely retracted before checking the oil level. Rooms with a USO mechanism, level out or straight out, should be fully extended to check the oil level.


I recall looking at one RV and using the same slide hydraulics, there were 4 different procedures on different models regarding which "Exact" slide had to be out or in. Almost none were all out or all in, they were staggered (go figure) It would seem logical that HWH would post a plate on each coach for this procedure.

Mike
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:31 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Idleup View Post
This fill procedure is a loaded question and myth, while it should simple to address, everyone you talk to has a different idea regarding the fill.

I recall looking at one RV and using the same slide hydraulics, there were 4 different procedures on different models regarding which "Exact" slide had to be out or in. Almost none were all out or all in, they were staggered (go figure) It would seem logical that HWH would post a plate on each coach for this procedure.

Mike
In a typical hydraulic system moving the actuator should half little impact on oil level since oil leaves one end of the hydraulic cylinder during actuation as oil under pressure comes into the other side. Could be the hydraulic struts for leveling are oil on one side only with the spring return, but the hydraulic struts on the slide outs are definitely two way.

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Old 05-01-2018, 11:43 AM   #10
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New Aire Hydraulic issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winepress View Post
Slides in, jacks up for fluid. The creep is most likely air in the lines.


I also believe this is correct, when anything is extended, slide actuator cylinder or jack cylinder, fluid is dispersed from the reservoir, lowering fluid in the tank. I vote for air also

Ok after reading the above post, Iím confused, it makes sense on the two way in slide rams. I will stay tuned
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Old 05-01-2018, 12:11 PM   #11
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In a typical hydraulic system moving the actuator should half little impact on oil level since oil leaves one end of the hydraulic cylinder during actuation as oil under pressure comes into the other side. Could be the hydraulic struts for leveling are oil on one side only with the spring return, but the hydraulic struts on the slide outs are definitely two way.
I don't know how else to explain overflowing the reservoir by at least a quart by putting the slides out. The HWH guy mentioned the levels are directly related to the position of the cylinder.

The leveling, for sure, consumes fluid on the way out (I directly observed this). Makes sense as there are springs which pull them in (vs. running the pump). With the slides being two-way, I'm not sure; I'll try to study the fluid levels when I retract each slide when I leave next week.
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Old 05-01-2018, 12:20 PM   #12
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I also believe this is correct, when anything is extended, slide actuator cylinder or jack cylinder, fluid is dispersed from the reservoir, lowering fluid in the tank. I vote for air also

Ok after reading the above post, I’m confused, it makes sense on the two way in slide rams. I will stay tuned
That depends on which HWH system you have.. On ours (which is a 2002 "Train" 1 year only system) You must extend the slide before checking the fluid level.( The hyd rams are retracted when you extend the slide, and rams are extended when you retract the slide..just bass-akkurds from what one would think)).Uses Dextron(?)III/Mercron ATF. (not sure of the spelling)
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Old 05-01-2018, 03:47 PM   #13
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if joe doesnt know, nobody knows. you can rely on joe for great information.
any mechanism that is designated train, platform, (uplo), uso, ulo, x slide, or lateral arm retracts the cylinder to extend the room. generally these mechanisms are above the floor mechanisms.
to check the fluid on a coach that is equipped with this type of room, that room has to be in the extended position. then the cylinder would be in the retracted position.
if the same coach has a single cylinder slide, storage bay, gen slide, or step, that should be retracted.
if it has spring retracted, or power down/up jacks, the jacks have to be retracted
to check the fluid. its up to the owner to be sure he is familiar with the coach and keep this in mind when checking the fluid.
i do not disagree that it might be a good idea to label each coach, but that is up to the mfg, since they decide which systems to use on a particular coach.
i dont know if this helps. but you are welcome to call me at 1-602-549-3638.
maybe i can help.
paul maddox
i work for hwh, i do not sell parts or solicit service work on this forum.
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Old 05-01-2018, 06:35 PM   #14
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HWH confirms the *opposite* of what we've all been believing. You test the fluid levels with the slides OUT on these slides because the cylinders are retracted when the slide is out. Jacks are still up for the test. Newmar is updating the documentation as a result of this encounter.

That explains why I dumped so much fluid when I put the slides out. Joe @ HWH didn't think I had an issue with air, but rather probably some junk stuck in the solenoid that created a leak which I've cleared by cycling the slide so many times. If it happens again, we'd be replacing the solenoid.

There is a 10 micron filter in the tank (virtually maintenance free) as well as a magnetic catch.
i hope that junk is now in the filter....

hope it is fixed for you !
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