Community Forums

Don and Dale · 05-13-2014, 05:18 PM

I'm not a Newmar owner, I own a Thor ACE 29.2 and there is a factory sticker under the slide switch that says "IMPORTANT - LEVEL COACH BEFORE EXTENDING SLIDE". I think I will follow their advice.

DSL417 · 05-13-2014, 05:42 PM

Different coaches...different approaches. My guess is it is a recommendation based upon the way the coach is constructed. So suggesting one way or the other based upon your own coach manufacturer may be inappropriate, or down right wrong. Best to go with what the manufacturer says. I am surprised with this Newmar guidance, as I've always read the opposite for Newmar. And, Entegra recommends exactly the opposite compared to Newmar, even though there constructions so similar.

Don and Dale · 05-13-2014, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSL417

Different coaches...different approaches. My guess is it is a recommendation based upon the way the coach is constructed. So suggesting one way or the other based upon your own coach manufacturer may be inappropriate, or down right wrong. Best to go with what the manufacturer says. I am surprised with this Newmar guidance, as I've always read the opposite for Newmar. And, Entegra recommends exactly the opposite compared to Newmar, even though there constructions so similar.

Agreed. I would follow your individual manufacturers advice. Didn't mean to imply you shouldn't. (not that you thought I was)

slabman · 05-13-2014, 06:08 PM

I look at it from a structural engineering perspective. Firstly, EITHER approaches can be fine, given certain circumstances. ASSUMING you are sitting on relatively even ground, the slides can be safely extended/retracted. If not, then you probably should level it first.

Another school of thought goes goes like this: The slides are installed onto the main box when wheels are on the shop floor, effectively "locking in" existing frame geometry. As long as you don't alter that geometry by sitting on grossly uneven ground, the slide should continue to fit well. Not sure the real world is always that simple????

So why the the confusion?

Some of you may notice the basement doors fit differently when on jacks vs on wheels. IF you examine the locations of the jacks you'll find the front jacks are supporting the main rails REARWARD of the front axle. The rear jacks are located in between the two back axles. This provides different support points on the rails, amounting to a change in span or support of these beams. Additionally, axle support is extended several feet along the beams (rails), effectively decreasing the span of the beams. This means differing deflections at main rail mid-span, causing a change in shape of the supported box structure above. And slide geometry is, of course, based on mid-span beam and "box" deflections. So if you change the shape of the supporting frame, fitment of slides can be altered. Hope this makes sense.....

I used to do it both ways with my old coach, a Travel Supreme. I became a believer in leveling AFTER extending the slides when I found the end of a slide jammed into the sidewall of the main wall. This occurred on level ground, but with jacks on the ground. So now I first make an assessment of surrounding terrain and if reasonably level, I run the slides out, then level. So far...no problems.

"007" · 05-13-2014, 06:20 PM

This was the discussion about FWS's when the Redbaron had problems and FLSteve also had damage to his.
Its found in QT's # 3.
After the discussion it was decided by owners of FWS's that they would level first than deploy the FWS.
As far as I know no one has had a problem doing it that way at least not the Redbaron and Steve had in the pictures.
Maybe they should take Mr. Millers FWS out to a campground and deploy on uneven ground and see what happens and even use AUTO level and watch what happens on uneven ground, good luck.
Newmar pays to advertise this forum would think they would also monitor members on it too, as to problems they encounter with their coach's.

Gordon Dewald · 05-13-2014, 06:26 PM

2014 Tour manual says to level coach before extending rooms.

Seems more logical than extending then leveling.

jigsup · 05-13-2014, 07:39 PM

During my Factory Delivery PDI the first week of April, I was also informed by Newmar they were indeed reversing their previous recommendation regarding the order the slides and leveling jacks were to be deployed. They acknowledged that the new recommendation to extend the slides prior to the HWH leveling jacks appeared contrary to what would be preceived as common sense. However, they now feel (as slabman explained), there would be less of a potential for "racking" the frame, particularly in circumstances of coaches deploying full wall slides. Although on the surface, it does appear contrary to how a resonable person would think, I for one have to believe the Newmar engineers have significantly researced the issue before taking an official position to reverse their previous recommendation.

Jigs

bullheaded · 05-13-2014, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slabman

I look at it from a structural engineering perspective. Firstly, EITHER approaches can be fine, given certain circumstances. ASSUMING you are sitting on relatively even ground, the slides can be safely extended/retracted. If not, then you probably should level it first.

Another school of thought goes goes like this: The slides are installed onto the main box when wheels are on the shop floor, effectively "locking in" existing frame geometry. As long as you don't alter that geometry by sitting on grossly uneven ground, the slide should continue to fit well. Not sure the real world is always that simple????

So why the the confusion?

Some of you may notice the basement doors fit differently when on jacks vs on wheels. IF you examine the locations of the jacks you'll find the front jacks are supporting the main rails REARWARD of the front axle. The rear jacks are located in between the two back axles. This provides different support points on the rails, amounting to a change in span or support of these beams. Additionally, axle support is extended several feet along the beams (rails), effectively decreasing the span of the beams. This means differing deflections at main rail mid-span, causing a change in shape of the supported box structure above. And slide geometry is, of course, based on mid-span beam and "box" deflections. So if you change the shape of the supporting frame, fitment of slides can be altered. Hope this makes sense.....

I used to do it both ways with my old coach, a Travel Supreme. I became a believer in leveling AFTER extending the slides when I found the end of a slide jammed into the sidewall of the main wall. This occurred on level ground, but with jacks on the ground. So now I first make an assessment of surrounding terrain and if reasonably level, I run the slides out, then level. So far...no problems.

Exactly....our old Travel Supreme 42DL14 had an issue once with the trim hitting... jacks down first. After that I have always extend with the coach on the bags. Entegra and now with the KA.

"007" · 05-14-2014, 05:47 AM

When the Redbaron had this problem he was not sure when it happened before he left his coach at a dealer for work , if it happen when he opened slide or that the dealer opened the slide, he just notice it when he went to pick up coach.

GaryKD mentioned that the slides will creep forward or backward if coach is not level, this will happen on slides that are not FWS's like the LR slide on most coach's I have owned, that's why we always leveled first with the jacks.

Than slabman brings up a point about the compartment doors and space around doors when on tires and on the jacks clearances will change much like a coach with mid-door entry, over lift the jacks and you can bind the door in its frame so you can not open it, which people have done.

The jacks are not to lift the coach but to stable the coach with tires on the ground but we have had people that have lifted rear tires of ground and ran into a problem doing so.

Than we can add into the mix this post by Stealth01 and which most of us have lived by for years on a gas coach without bags but he has a coach "Essex" with them.

We can all live with change but the stress may be madding in doing so.

Maybe we need a KenSherwin analysis of Newmar engineering thinking on this subject, our resident engineer

of Comfort Drive fame.

Carry on maybe it will be resolved for sure this time.

JohnT · 05-14-2014, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slabman

Another school of thought goes goes like this: The slides are installed onto the main box when wheels are on the shop floor, effectively "locking in" existing frame geometry. As long as you don't alter that geometry by sitting on grossly uneven ground, the slide should continue to fit well. Not sure the real world is always that simple????

Interesting.
What does Newmar consider to be "level" (air bags filled or empty) during the build process. The ME in me thinks the box is built with the frame with the suspension bottomed (no air). Is there a difference between "level" with the suspension bottomed out and "level" at ride height?

I haven't seen one built.

I try to level the coach on the suspension (using wood) before I hit the Auto Level. I'm making an assumption (good or bad) that the ride height and air bags deflated are both "level".

GaryKD · 05-14-2014, 07:39 AM

This is the latest, hot off the telephone. I contacted Newmar tech support. The new slide extension instructions are for full wall slide coaches only. And then only for the full wall slide. The engineering reasons behind this remains a mystery, but the rep who I spoke to promised to get an answer, from engineering, and get back to me.

If one does not have a full wall slide coach the instructions remain as in the past, level the coach and then extend the slides.

Stay tuned for part 2 when the Newmar rep gets back to me on the reason for changing deployment of the full wall slide.

**TonyDi** · 05-14-2014, 07:50 AM

Has anyone asked what will happen to the coach if you don't put the slide out before leveling?

This seem strange to me. Let's see if I understand. You have pulled into a site that is not level and they want to force one of the slides uphill if the site is not level side-to-side. Then if the site is not level front to rear they want us to possible have the slide creep out of proper alignment. Now that we have done this, level the coach with all that additional weight now transferred outward.

I also wonder if you can rack the slide when doing this. This makes no sense, and I will continue to level first.

The Okie · 05-14-2014, 08:34 AM

Sent customer service an email asking for explanation of new slide procedure. Will post their reply when I receive one.

wnytaxman · 05-14-2014, 09:07 AM

I'm still looking at either Newmar or Entegra but if I go with Newmar it will be a full wall slide unit. Am I understanding correctly that the suggested procedure is extend the full wall first, then level, then extend the other slides? I know Entegra says extend, then level and they also have the slides with low tolerances.