Newmar is resting on it's laurels!

[MikeD1]

Originally Posted by avid_dk

Mike you are a new owner. Newmar is setting the standard. My Bay Star is my third motorhome. It is the first one where I actually was given a 24 hour cell phone number to call in case I had issues. It is the first one where someone actually calls after an issue and asks if you were satisfied with the outcome.

The insulation of these coaches is outstanding, all the wiring I can see is neat and organized. All the interior work was journeyman quality and they didn't use outrageous toxic glues to put the thing together. I have been in a few new motorhomes were I felt like asking for a gas mask. My Bay Star handles well with no add on stabilizers, etc. It is really hard for a newbie to judge until you know how truly screwed up of a mess one can buy.

There are tons of FUD (Fear, uncertainty, doubt) in all online sites about anything you can purchase. There are a lot of very satisfied Newmar customers. If I buy another coach it will be a Newmar without question.

So far I have been pleased with the factory responses and yes, I appreciate being able to make a call and get a call back asap. I also agree that the interior (and exterior) workmanship seems to be top notch . . . definitely one of the first things that caught our attention was how solid and well built the cabinetry is. As far as handling, mine was out of alignment and a bit of a handful. Since doing the alignment, CHF and adding Safe-T-Steer (all at my expense) it handles quite well. As I said, if the factory warranty work goes well, I will be a happy camper.

[judgebobk]

Having been president for 10 years does not necessarily give you street smarts on how to handle people in various situations. What I would have done is say I 'm sorry your having problems why don't you sit down with my warranty manager and lets see what is going on. It might just be that growing up in the company with his father owning it he might be used to people thinking he has more business acumen than he actually has. Is that possible? By the way if you ever saw the list of problems with our coach you would be upset also. Compound that by absolutely no response from the Newmar hierarchy. As it turned out, the warranty manager did try to do what Matt Miller should have done and Yes I did run a business with many lawyers for a long time.

[Mac99]

In my opinion, having talked with a lot of folks with all
different brands of "assembly line" motor homes, they are
all pretty much the same. The quality control is poor
in all the brands, including Tiffin. If you are not handy and
able to fix the small stuff, you will be very annoyed at the
process. Some dealers are good, but many are not. I had
my best luck with a local rv repair shop who could do all the
warranty work, since my selling dealer was incompetent.
I fixed all the minor stuff that I could myself.
It is what it is.........

[judgebobk]

We seem to be accepting the low standard and I agree with you. I'm a pilot and I would never fly a plane constructed the way my RV was. So why do we accept the low standard? We should push for better quality.

[pilotspike]

Originally Posted by judgebobk

By the way if you ever saw the list of problems with our coach you would be upset also. Compound that by absolutely no response from the Newmar hierarchy. As it turned out, the warranty manager did try to do what Matt Miller should have done and Yes I did run a business with many lawyers for a long time.

Actually, I would love to see it and compare. Mine was actually very short, something like 8 issues that were absolutely no rush at all.

[gimlimike]

Originally Posted by judgebobk

What's interesting is that you pressume to give advice and critique my conduct. After over a year of constant repairs I had a right to be angry. Matt Miller's problem is he is the son of the owner and doesn't have the experience. This was not a confrontation. I gave him a letter and asked for a response because of all the problems. You don't turn and walk away which is what triggered my comment.
I will be more precise from now on knowing I will be graded for shortening the scenario because I'm typing on a phone. Thanks for your analysis. [emoji12]

I think your reaction is really a result of feeling like your concerns were being ignored by everyone you may have interacted with previously. The fact that the Warranty Manager sat down with you and showed some level of compassion ( respect) indicates to me that that's all you were looking for , understandably so. I think that when companies put too many walls up to communication and those walls are not knowledgeable or compassionate it just increases the anxiety for customers trying to deal with them resulting in taking an approach like you did.

" in our days" customer service was King and the interaction between unhappy customer and the problem solver was much easier. I am glad you got your issues solved but it still leaves some scars for sure that you had to take it that far should be a signal for the company that they did not meet your expectations and that they might not be meeting other clients expectations either who might vote with their feet. A reputation is only good until it's not

[RickySpanish]

Originally Posted by MoHoWill

In the two years that I've owned my Ventana (I bought it new), I've experienced quite a few problems. While some would argue that this is the nature of all motorhomes, or teething problems, it does not have to be this way! Most of these problems were the result of poor workmanship and/or cheap parts.

Prior to our purchase I had heard a lot about the quality of Newmar, and particularly it's Customer Service department.

I have contacted customer service several times over the past two years; while I found them to be generally helpful, and occasionally very helpful, recently their helpfulness and attitude has gotten poor. I have always had long wait times, but recently the waits have been very long. When I finally get through, they always seem rushed, and are always wanting to transfer me to a different person (aka, pass-the-buck). The fellow I spoke to today was just outright surly!

As I mentioned above, we've had lots of problems, but I would still say the overall quality of the coach is "good", workmanship is "ok" - probably better than most, which isn't saying a lot.

My take is that they are trying to grow too fast, and can't maintain the quality of construction, or service, that the company is/was famous for.

All in all, I'm disappointed in Newmar, and I don't think I would buy one again. However, who makes a better coach for under a million dollars??

You summed this up perfectly.

[newmarpusher]

Originally Posted by MoHoWill

In the two years that I've owned my Ventana (I bought it new), I've experienced quite a few problems. While some would argue that this is the nature of all motorhomes, or teething problems, it does not have to be this way! Most of these problems were the result of poor workmanship and/or cheap parts.

Prior to our purchase I had heard a lot about the quality of Newmar, and particularly it's Customer Service department.

I have contacted customer service several times over the past two years; while I found them to be generally helpful, and occasionally very helpful, recently their helpfulness and attitude has gotten poor. I have always had long wait times, but recently the waits have been very long. When I finally get through, they always seem rushed, and are always wanting to transfer me to a different person (aka, pass-the-buck). The fellow I spoke to today was just outright surly!

As I mentioned above, we've had lots of problems, but I would still say the overall quality of the coach is "good", workmanship is "ok" - probably better than most, which isn't saying a lot.

My take is that they are trying to grow too fast, and can't maintain the quality of construction, or service, that the company is/was famous for.

All in all, I'm disappointed in Newmar, and I don't think I would buy one again. However, who makes a better coach for under a million dollars??

We've owned three travel trailers, a Class C, and two Class A's. Our latest 2015 Newmar Ventana has been the best so far. Also the most expensive.

We had a couple of VERY minor cosmetic issues on the house portion - small crack in floor tile, loose trim on ceiling AC covers, Quarter sized paint defect on engine cover. All were expertly repaired at the factory at the 1 year mark.

We've had a number of issues with the Freightliner chassis though. TAG hub had to be replaced, Radiator hose leaks, Power Steering hose leaks, Transmission hose leaks, steering wheel put on crooked, check engine light. Odd since we had ZERO issues in 5 years with our 2010 Winnebago Freightliner chassis. Really no choice in Class A chassis unless I move up the food chain to a DS with a Spartan.

[Boomertx]

I see over and over again words similar to "they all have problems" . . . is that how Newmar wants to be known? That they are no better/no worse than others? Sad thing is, you see the exact same words in the Entegra and Tiffin forums.

Note, I am not comparing Newmar to entry level coaches but in our "searching" and comparing 500K MSRP coaches, I've seen little to nothing that differentiates Newmar from its price point competition from a build quality perspective. Personally, I'd be curious to know, when defects are found by the customer during factory pick up, is every one of those production error escapes reviewed by the appropriate MANAGEMENT level (Operations, Quality, etc.) with an eye towards "how the heck did that escape us"? And please, I am NOT just picking on Newmar. We've also looked closely at Entegra, Tiffin, American Coach, and high end WB Tours. We were possibly considering buying new, but based just on my personal observations on ACTUAL new units, not now. Great warranties are good and EXPECTED at this price point, problem is, a warranty is just a piece of paper while on the Alcan or 30 miles west of Deming NM on I10.

Most of the issues I saw or have read about can be attributed by a lack of attention to detail. Unfortunately, as production rates increase my experience of 40+ years in Quality and Reliability Engineering has shown over and over again that attention to detail is the FIRST thing that suffers. Excellent manufacturers know that and account for that.

Just wanted to add the "prospective buyer" perspective Y'all have a GREAT DAY!!!

[MRUSA14]

The market is very competitive and each manufacturer is trying to control costs in order to compete on price. Sometimes this leads to cutting corners.
Newmar is better than most in this regard as is Entegra. I particularly like the two year warranty on Entegras and the fact that Entegra has never to my knowledge brushed off a customer who had a problem.

Yes, there are problems, and there always will be. Sometimes you will talk to somebody who says they have little to no problems on a new coach, but sometimes you hear much the opposite. It is unpredictable.

Should it not be predictably high quality, like buying a Lexus (or other fine car)? Yes, but that will never happen with RV's. Lexus cars are not hand built like an RV. Almost everything on a Lexus is done by robots or with precision jigs, so the process is near perfect. This is far different from the construction of a motorhome. A Lexus has one air conditioner, not three or four. A lexus has no dishwasher, sink, clothes washer or dryer, and no refrigerator. No satellite dish or TV's. No toilet(s), water system, sewage system, or auxiliary generator. Four wheels instead of ten. I could go on and on, but the point is the complexity of even a basic a motorhome is far greater than any car built. Nor is it a matter of price. I know several people who own 2 million dollar Newells and Prevosts and they too have plenty of problems and are often returning to the factory for repairs.

I have been reading this and similar forums for more than 15 years and for that entire time I have been constantly reading the type of complaints voiced here by the OP and others. I just don't understand why people cannot comprehend the difference between a relatively simple mass produced product like a car or truck, and a complex hand-built thing like a motorhome. Anybody who ever owned an airplane or a large boat will understand why owning one of these things means continuous repairs. It is an unchangeable fact of RVing. If you can't enjoy your RV despite the need for continuous repairs and maintenance, then perhaps this is not the right activity for you.

Some will say I am making excuses for the manufacturers. I say no, I am just facing reality.

Originally Posted by Boomertx

I see over and over again words similar to "they all have problems" . . . is that how Newmar wants to be known? That they are no better/no worse than others? Sad thing is, you see the exact same words in the Entegra and Tiffin forums.

Note, I am not comparing Newmar to entry level coaches but in our "searching" and comparing 500K MSRP coaches, I've seen little to nothing that differentiates Newmar from its price point competition from a build quality perspective. Personally, I'd be curious to know, when defects are found by the customer during factory pick up, is every one of those production error escapes reviewed by the appropriate MANAGEMENT level (Operations, Quality, etc.) with an eye towards "how the heck did that escape us"? And please, I am NOT just picking on Newmar. We've also looked closely at Entegra, Tiffin, American Coach, and high end WB Tours. We were possibly considering buying new, but based just on my personal observations on ACTUAL new units, not now. Great warranties are good and EXPECTED at this price point, problem is, a warranty is just a piece of paper while on the Alcan or 30 miles west of Deming NM on I10.

Most of the issues I saw or have read about can be attributed by a lack of attention to detail. Unfortunately, as production rates increase my experience of 40+ years in Quality and Reliability Engineering has shown over and over again that attention to detail is the FIRST thing that suffers. Excellent manufacturers know that and account for that.

Just wanted to add the "prospective buyer" perspective Y'all have a GREAT DAY!!!

[Waywards]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

...and the fact that Entegra has never to my knowledge brushed off a customer who had a problem.

Really? Honestly? You've never visited the Entegra forum or You Tubed Entegra problems?

[avid_dk]

Even car manufacturers have all kinds of problems. For instance, I just got done with the VW diesel mess. How about Takata air bags? Honda was having real teething fits when they started using CVT transmissions. For crying out loud Samsung recalled and entire production of phones. The Boeing 787 had lithium battery fires. I just read somewhere that a 2/3 of Telsa's drive trains were having to be rebuilt before 60k miles.

My RV repair guy purchased an expensive ski boat. The engine failed on his first attempt to use it. The entire engine had to be replaced.

[Chargerman]

I have visited both the Newmarket and Entegra facilities for a tour. The build process is basically the same and I'm pretty sure so are the others that compete. I feel the issue is cultural. The focus is on speed and I didn't see any quality focus, checks, goals etc anywhere in the process. At production completion there was a large team of folks fixing all of the quality issues. I was astounded to see 5-6 sheets of inspection corrections plastered to the side of each Coach. Quality is not built into the process it is attempted to be corrected in final inspection. What about all of the quality issues that are hidden from view?? The production focus is on time and speed and paying production line workers piecework only amplifies the problem. Have owned a medical device manufacturing company where quality was core to the business it was obvious to me that this is needed in RV production. If one manufacturer could come to the realization of the cost of warrantee repairs, final inspection quality repairs and delivery delays and turned that lost revenue into significant quality initiatives it would start driving the industry in a much better direction for them and the consumer. I hope the upper management of at least manufacturer sees the light soon

[Gonna_Wander]

Can anyone name an RV manufacturer that has significantly better quality and fewer problems than the others?

Airstream is the only one I can think of. I believe an Airstream trailer costs about 3 to 4 times as much as a typical trailer, so it has to be a pretty niche market.