Newmar response to GIRARD Awning bolt issue

[ChattaBob]

Here is my email conversation with a Dutch Star CS Rep:

“Please see pic of the Girard awning bolts that are sinking into the aluminum mounts on the rooftop.........”
“Does Newmar have a position on this issue?”

Response:
“After researching this issue with the Girard mounting bolts, I have been informed that this poses no issue to the coach. Per our engineering dept. The bolt that are shown in your picture does not bear a load.

It is designed to secure to the aluminum plate as shown and will often times ‘dig’ into that plate. It does not however pose an issue for failure.”

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by ChattaBob

Here is my email conversation with a Dutch Star CS Rep:

“Please see pic of the Girard awning bolts that are sinking into the aluminum mounts on the rooftop.........”
“Does Newmar have a position on this issue?”

Response:
“After researching this issue with the Girard mounting bolts, I have been informed that this poses no issue to the coach. Per our engineering dept. The bolt that are shown in your picture does not bear a load.

It is designed to secure to the aluminum plate as shown and will often times ‘dig’ into that plate. It does not however pose an issue for failure.”

I was given the same response.

We all know this does have some load on it. Just loosen a bolt and see what happens to the plate. Thus the need for the vice grips.

Newmar actually offered to pay for a dealer to fix mine, so the responses are not consistent. I prefer to do this myself, so in the end, there was nothing for Newmar to do.

[Canuck53]

Originally Posted by ChattaBob

Here is my email conversation with a Dutch Star CS Rep:

“Please see pic of the Girard awning bolts that are sinking into the aluminum mounts on the rooftop.........”
“Does Newmar have a position on this issue?”

Response:
“After researching this issue with the Girard mounting bolts, I have been informed that this poses no issue to the coach. Per our engineering dept. The bolt that are shown in your picture does not bear a load.

It is designed to secure to the aluminum plate as shown and will often times ‘dig’ into that plate. It does not however pose an issue for failure.”

If it does not bear a load why is it there? I have yet see a bolt in the horizontal position not bear some load. Why did it dig into the aluminum? Tighten to tight?

[Dutch Star Don]

I don't really care about it digging into the aluminum so much as the fact that they installed split lock washers into a hole larger than the washer on two sides. If these had flat washers, under the split lock washer, no one would be talking about it.

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don

I don't really care about it digging into the aluminum so much as the fact that they installed split lock washers into a hole larger than the washer on two sides. If these had flat washers, under the split lock washer, no one would be talking about it.

Or, flat washers or Nordlocks and throw away the split washers ... they are worthless.

[NealC]

Wait a minute, was this their first reply or second? What happened to "We've never heard of this before?" Or maybe they read our posts and are using something different now?

[turbopilot]

Originally Posted by NealC

Wait a minute, was this their first reply or second? What happened to "We've never heard of this before?" Or maybe they read our posts and are using something different now?

Clearly the folks who answer customer questions with foolish answers have not read the Newmar Mission Statement. The company is not walking the talk.

[lostinfla]

Maybe it's just me, but in the past year or so, when I call there to get some tech advice I end up talking to someone who is just looking at a computer screen for possible responses. Previously, I felt the person I was talking with had some experience with the product. Now, not so much.

[BnB]

Turbo - thanks for the Mission Statement, I'll attach that to all my emails I send to Newmar CS refer warranty issues, that they never respond to.......... I don't get it 🤔

[Steve Kieffer]

My primary career was owning a company that manufactured aluminum and steel engineered structures. When a hard fastener, steel bolt, is used to connect soft metal, aluminum, flat washers are necessary to spread the load and avoid damaging the soft metal. The use of a lock washer without a flat washer results in damage to the soft metal and loosening of the connection. Further, if their is a shear load, verses solely clamping pressure, hole diameter of the base metal pieces is critical for a successful connection.


I inspected my new 2019 MA, February 2019 manufacturing, and Newmar's engineers still do not understand these basic connection design principals. They have not changed their connection methods.

[Canuck53]

Originally Posted by Steve Kieffer

My primary career was owning a company that manufactured aluminum and steel engineered structures. When a hard fastener, steel bolt, is used to connect soft metal, aluminum, flat washers are necessary to spread the load and avoid damaging the soft metal. The use of a lock washer without a flat washer results in damage to the soft metal and loosening of the connection. Further, if their is a shear load, verses solely clamping pressure, hole diameter of the base metal pieces is critical for a successful connection.


I inspected my new 2019 MA, February 2019 manufacturing, and Newmar's engineers still do not understand these basic connection design principals. They have not changed their connection methods.

Steve what do you recommend to fix the problem? Thanks

[Steve Kieffer]

See the other post on this subject "Girard Awnings - check your bolts". Girard's installation instruction are cited. They recommend a carriage bolt in the slotted hole and flat washer, lock washer and nut on the opposite side. That would work, if the holes align properly. A lock wash helps ensure that there is some torquing of the connection. In this application I'd probably use a Nylock nut to help ensure that vibrations don't cause the connection to loosen and torque this connection to specs.

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by Steve Kieffer

See the other post on this subject "Girard Awnings - check your bolts". Girard's installation instruction are cited. They recommend a carriage bolt in the slotted hole and flat washer, lock washer and nut on the opposite side. That would work, if the holes align properly. A lock wash helps ensure that there is some torquing of the connection. In this application I'd probably use a Nylock nut to help ensure that vibrations don't cause the connection to loosen and torque this connection to specs.

Yup .... not sure you can retrofit without removing the awning (length of bolt restriction). If starting from scratch ... carriage bolt/hanger/flat washer/Nylock would be my choice.
BTW, the install procedure is to locate the appropriate roof anchor point FIRST, than assemble the hanger assembly, then hang the awning (the awning can be adjusted horizontally in it's hanger). In other words, the slotted holes line up with the roof mount because that's the first thing you do. The slotted holes allow vertical alignment. Apparently the Girard people had a decent idea ...
Don't know what Newmar was thinkin'...

[Canuck53]

Originally Posted by bruceisla

Yup .... not sure you can retrofit without removing the awning (length of bolt restriction). If starting from scratch ... carriage bolt/hanger/flat washer/Nylock would be my choice.
BTW, the install procedure is to locate the appropriate roof anchor point FIRST, than assemble the hanger assembly, then hang the awning (the awning can be adjusted horizontally in it's hanger). In other words, the slotted holes line up with the roof mount because that's the first thing you do. The slotted holes allow vertical alignment. Apparently the Girard people had a decent idea ...
Don't know what Newmar was thinkin'...

To small a detail to pay attention to. That is why they need to read the invaluable posts on this site.