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Old 04-24-2016, 10:29 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by BigDogSolo View Post
I just picked up my new 16 DS so I had inquired about this process. There are currently only 4 facilities that will be authorized to make this change. The factory will not be doing it. Most dealers will not be able to do it. The process is "still a work in progress" for several reasons....getting the axles available etc.... there is a Freightliner facility near Napanee that is on the list, and of course Gaffney facility is another one. The option to change is up to the owner. So in short, you decide to buy or not, then you would arrange when and where to have it changed out. Hope that helps.


Thanks BigDogSolo, that does help. I appreciate the information.

I currently own a FR Berkshire with a similar problem, I'll be going to their factory in Elkhart at the end of this month for the upgraded airbags and new tires all the way around.
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Old 04-24-2016, 05:51 PM   #44
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{ I think the fact that Newmar is providing the axle upgrade and now redesigning the 2017s supports the contention that there was a significant/serious problem. }

What "redesign" are you talking about. I have heard of zero changes on the 2017 except changing to 365's on the front axle. That is far from a redesign. Let me know. Thanks, Randy
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Old 04-24-2016, 06:06 PM   #45
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The redesign, as you call it, begins with the 365 tires on the 2017's. We were about to order to 16 DSDP and talked with Ken WIlliamson of Newmar about paying for the larger tires with the new axle while at the Tampa show.

His response was that the 365 tires won't fit the 2016 wheel wells, and that the front lower cap would have to be redesigned. Also, he said the steering would have to be redesigned, along with the suspension, brakes, control arms, etc.

This told me that the 2017's would be a totally redesigned front end, which I assume it is since the 16's have the larger tires. We halted our order and found a 2016 MADP and paid the difference....glad we did as the MA is a sweetheart.
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Old 04-24-2016, 06:47 PM   #46
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I'm sure looking forward when the details are released for the Frieghtliner and Spartan choices for the DS. I have found this whole issue very educational for some looking in from the side lines. With the Canadian $ improving I have gotten interested again.
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Old 04-24-2016, 07:18 PM   #47
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2016 1/2

Mike,

This is interesting as I have not heard of a date when all the DS's are coming off the production line with the upgrade done. This is going to really suck for the dealers with old inventory.

Do you have the date of this changeover to the 18K axle?

Jim


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Just a reminder, the later built 2016's ( 2016 1/2) has the up-rated front axle installed on the chassis during production at Freightliner.

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Old 04-26-2016, 09:42 PM   #48
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Here is the latest from my original post....still have not received a response from Newmar from my 4/6 or 4/10 e-mails. So I sent another one yesterday 4/25. I know there are those of you who disagree with my expectation of having the 2016s updated the same as the 2017s have been updated and that's OK. However, I have received word from others who also have the same expectation. We will continue to challenge Newmar to do the right thing and fix the 2016s properly. We'll all eventually really see if Newmar truly stands behind their products. Its readily apparent with their refusal to answer e-mails their customer responsiveness is in the tank.

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Old 04-26-2016, 10:45 PM   #49
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What is it that you expect to get from them given that they have a fix that is acceptable to them and to Freightliner but not you? If at some point they stop responding does it mean that their customer service is in the tank or does it mean that they have chose to no longer engage due to an incompatibility of opinion?

From an outsider's perspective (aka my coach isn't involved) it would appear that Newmar has offered a fix and is not willing to endlessly debate the point with people who want more.

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Old 04-27-2016, 06:21 AM   #50
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John,
If two coaches which are basically the same have the same problem wouldn't you expect the coachs to be fixed in the way that engineering determines them they should be fixed? Newmar engineering has decided that one coach needs a 17K FA configuration. The other gets a 15400 lb FA configuration. Which fix would you want for your coach?

If you read and understood my earlier post you will see that Newmar overlooked the weight ratings on the wheels, IFS and hubs. I contacted them and they eventually upgraded the wheels but so far they have not addressed the IFS and hubs. My expectation is that Newmar should respond with an answer on how the weight rating deficiencies are being addressed for the IFS and hubs. Is that too much to ask? Is it too much to ask for Newmar to provide an answer why the 17K FA is not being provided for the 2016s. Newmar has confirmed in writing to me that costs will not be a issue is providing the proper fix. They stated that their reputation is important to them and that they will satisfy their customers in resolving this. I'm hoping they stick to their commitment.

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Old 04-27-2016, 09:19 AM   #51
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Just curious Allen. What is the heaviest your coach has weighed at the scales? Randy
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:44 AM   #52
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John,
If two coaches which are basically the same have the same problem wouldn't you expect the coachs to be fixed in the way that engineering determines them they should be fixed? Newmar engineering has decided that one coach needs a 17K FA configuration. The other gets a 15400 lb FA configuration. Which fix would you want for your coach?
Just to restate, I don't have an expectation here as I am not party. I am just observing that Newmar seems to have decided on a fix in partnership with Freightliner and doesn't seem to be engaging related to a 17K axle on the '16 model years.

With that said, Ill try to answer your question with what would be my opinion. I don't accept the idea that these two coaches are basically the same or that they have the same problem. This is especially the case since the '17 has not likely been built yet. However, by definition, if the '17 comes off the line with a 17K axle and has plenty of margin on the front, then it doesn't have the same problem, in fact, it wouldn't have a problem at all. These are apples and oranges.

The fix that I would want for my coach is the fix that gives me the needed capacity, which may have nothing to do with what they have done to the next model year. The point of question here is if a 15.4K rating cuts it as far as capacity is concerned. I would tend to think so, but again, i don't have a dog in that fight.

With respect to your other concerns regarding the IFS and the hubs, it would seem that if those components dont really stack up then Newmar can't actually re-rate the FA to 15.4K. If they can't do that then they cant fix the issue as they have said they will Which brings me back to the idea that since they are currently running silent on this, and they haven't retrofitted any of the units as of yet, we may not have seen the final answer. This is especially considering of what they have put into writing for you.

I dont think you are going to get any traction with them asking why or why not they have chosen one solution over the other (aka 17K FA). The relevant questions is if what they are going to actually do to the coach when its pulled into the bay is appropriate.

John
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Old 04-27-2016, 04:07 PM   #53
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Randy,
My coach weighed 14460 which did not include all equipment and did not include any passengers; we usually travel with two ~300 lbs total. As you can see we will be over the GAWR of 14,600 when we are normally loaded.

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Old 04-27-2016, 04:25 PM   #54
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John,
I agree with you, comparing the current 2017 with the 17K FA to the 2016 with a 14600 LB FA is like comparing apples and oranges. My point is the two coaches are basically the same, same XCR chassis, same STAR foundation, same box or house built, same FWS with full tile, basically same weight. The only real difference in the two coaches is the FA configuration.

I also agree with what I believe is your conclusion that Newmar could still be working on and/or considering the FA configuration to be offered. This is a major point of emphasis for me. I believe Newmar should understand what their customers opinions are and take those opinions into consideration. That's all I'm really asking for. Having said that I also have the expectation that Newmar would share with concerned customers what progress is being made and acknowledge they are listening to their customers. That is NOT happening. It is my opinion, keeping customers in the dark, is NO WAY to run a railroad. I spent a lot of time and money researching Newmar and came to believe I was buying from a World Class company offering and supporting a World Class product. At this point I am not willing to give up on that and that is why I am pushing this so hard. I did not pay more and come to expect more to settle for less.


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Old 04-27-2016, 07:35 PM   #55
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Randy,
My coach weighed 14460 which did not include all equipment and did not include any passengers; we usually travel with two ~300 lbs total. As you can see we will be over the GAWR of 14,600 when we are normally loaded.

Allen
Thanks for that. I had not heard any numbers to date. I am in the 4369 market. The 40' floor plans are not enough for us. Personal preference.

I did talk to 2 dealers in the last days about the 2016's on their lots. One dealer has several and 8 more new 4369's on there way in. Those will all have the 18k axle. Newmar has been contacting several owners and asking them if they want the axle update. The dealer stated that Newmar needs to have some idea of how many coaches they need to get parts for. I do not know the number but understand that it is not what I would expect. By that I mean not as high a percentage as I would have thought. If we do decide on a 2016 I will be getting the upgrade and before we take delivery. By the way one dealer said they had just sent a coach in and had it upgraded for a new buyer. Sounds like some of the kits are coming through. I will be updating what everyone on what we decide. Stay tuned. Randy
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Old 04-28-2016, 08:54 AM   #56
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John,
I agree with you, comparing the current 2017 with the 17K FA to the 2016 with a 14600 LB FA is like comparing apples and oranges. My point is the two coaches are basically the same, same XCR chassis, same STAR foundation, same box or house built, same FWS with full tile, basically same weight. The only real difference in the two coaches is the FA configuration.

I also agree with what I believe is your conclusion that Newmar could still be working on and/or considering the FA configuration to be offered. This is a major point of emphasis for me. I believe Newmar should understand what their customers opinions are and take those opinions into consideration. That's all I'm really asking for. Having said that I also have the expectation that Newmar would share with concerned customers what progress is being made and acknowledge they are listening to their customers. That is NOT happening. It is my opinion, keeping customers in the dark, is NO WAY to run a railroad. I spent a lot of time and money researching Newmar and came to believe I was buying from a World Class company offering and supporting a World Class product. At this point I am not willing to give up on that and that is why I am pushing this so hard. I did not pay more and come to expect more to settle for less.


Allen
As I recall from this and other threads is that Newmar will be upgrading current owners (purchased prior to date) with a free upgrade. Hence the minimal axle upgrade and no increase in tire or wheel capacity. After that any new orders will be upcharged for the increased capacity.

Needless to say the increased capacity now included as a cost on the 2017 vs free for the upgrade on sold 2016 makes a big difference. Being prudent I would certainly include a larger front capacity on the 2017 for future expansion.

I believe Freightliner has no skin in this game. They design and build a chassis based on the customer requirements and what they will pay for. If it were up to them they would be selling Newmar a much higher capacity frame. Newmar being a business will be trying to minimize their costs as it goes to the corporate profit.

Not trying to pick on Newmar. They are being prudent in their solution to the problem. Any business that is to remain viable would be doing the same thing.
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