RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Newmar Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login

Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-18-2015, 12:09 PM   #1
Member
 
gmccausland's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kalamazoo
Posts: 44
Send a message via Skype™ to gmccausland
No Power at Ignition Switch (12 v)

I wanted to reach out to this forum as I have been very lucky NOT to have to use this group for a few years.
I have a 1999 Newmar Dutch Star on a Spartan Chassis. I went to start up the vehicle after driving it for 6 hours in mostly cold but sunny weather and today, when I went to start it no dash lights, no accessory to lower jacks etc. I looked at all the fuses I know about and could find none that were blown. I pulled ignition switch and confirmed NO battery power on ignition battery wire/cable.

Next I went to fuse box under hood in front. All fuses were okay and I have 12 volts on the master terminals from the rear battery compartment.

Now the interesting part. I have NO Power to the fuse panel where the ignition fuses are located.

Some additional detail might help.
1) NO dash lights at all when turn on ignition
2) Headlights do work though
3) Batteries both house and starting battery fully charged
4) Generator and all house voltage appears to be working fine.
5) It is NOT hooked up to shore power as we are off grid.
6) Key Accessary does not have power either (Run jacks etc.)

Good news is this is on my property and NOT at a public place. Bad news it is getting to be winter in Michigan and I already have been crawling around in this thing in the snow!

Any suggestions? It is going to be something simple, I just cannot see it and I don't have a wiring diagram either.

Well back out in the cold with the voltmeter and an attitude!

Thanks in advance.

George McCausland
__________________

gmccausland is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-18-2015, 12:16 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
dennis45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC
Posts: 7,466
My 03 has a 50A fuse at the Master Cutoff Switch in the engine compartment. This is in addition to the one in the battery compartment.
Or, it could be the switch itself. I replaced mine a few years ago because it was not always making contact.
__________________

__________________
2019 Unity LTV CB, pushed by a 2013 Honda CRV, BlueOx Baseplate, Aventa Bar & Patriot Brake
dennis45 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 12:32 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Skip426's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 17,222
The fuse panel with the ignition fuses , should be downstream from the ignition switch, so until you have power though the switch they won't be hot.

I'd say first thing would be to contact Spartan Motorhome support for a wiring schematic, and trace the power flow from the battery to the switch , to see if there is an in-line fuse or fuseable link ( fuse wire) used between the chassis battery power stud and the ignition switch , or ;and this is a long shot ;, but a second multiple connection , between the switch and the dashboard wiring harness, that may have a bad connection.
Spartan M/H Support

1-800-543-4277 have your serial number handy

www.spartanchassis.com
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
Skip426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2015, 06:21 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Texas Boomers Club
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Nor'easters Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
Any luck yet?
__________________
2016 Bay Star Sport downsize from 2001 MountainAire
Toad GMC Terrain, might leave it home on some trips.
hillboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2015, 06:43 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Sidewinder4's Avatar


 
National RV Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 467
Had a similar issue; in my DEF compartment there were fuzes and one was 150 amp fuze that had blown. NAPA had the fuze for $7.00 and all was well again. Picture is what the fuze looked like below. I have two, one was bad.
__________________
Terry & Kathy
2012 Dutch Star DP 4346
Sidewinder4 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2015, 07:26 AM   #6
Member
 
gmccausland's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kalamazoo
Posts: 44
Send a message via Skype™ to gmccausland
On hold for repairs

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillboy View Post
Any luck yet?
Not yet. I had to leave the unit on my site and go to work. You know so I can support my motor home! I will be back at it late Friday afternoon. I have some ideas from multiple sources including Spartan Chassis.

I will report back this weekend a status to all and if I fix it , make a quick report so someone else may learn from my "challenge".

Thanks to you and everyone for your help.
gmccausland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 09:19 AM   #7
Member
 
gmccausland's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kalamazoo
Posts: 44
Send a message via Skype™ to gmccausland
Found Fuse Blown - Continues to short

Update:
Long week, but traced down a fuse that keeps blowing so I have a short somewhere. My guess is still a gnawed wire by the dang mice. That said, the fuse is located on the fuse/relay box Rear #1. It is a 15 amp fuse that shows IGN switch and is located in the rear inverter basement box area. I have a picture. I left a message at Newmar to see about a wire diagram but have not heard yet. In their defense, I have been travelling for work.

So, does anyone have a wire schematic that maybe shows the color code for the wire on this fuse? My guess is it might go to the bird. But it is a dead short as soon as I put in the fuse. I thought it might be ignition key unit shorting, but even with that removed, I get a short.

I am on site this weekend and would love to get this fixed so I could move the unit to a more suitable winter storage so I have time to track this down.

Thanks again for all the input. It has helped me drive to the solution so I appreciate all the comments. It is sometimes a comment that sends me in the correct direction.

I appreciate your help.

George
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0200 (1).JPG
Views:	3198
Size:	122.8 KB
ID:	110287  
gmccausland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2015, 01:04 PM   #8
Member
 
gmccausland's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kalamazoo
Posts: 44
Send a message via Skype™ to gmccausland
Additional Information

Quick Update:

1) The 15 amp fuse in the Rear #1 compartment continued to blow and without schematics, I just cannot trace it down. SOLUTION? I bypassed that circuit completely by running a positive wire directly to the ignition spade on the ignition key with a 15 AMP fuse just in case. It worked and the Accessories ran and so did the pre "flight" diagnostics and dash was alive. As soon as I attempted to start the bus, dead short and the fuse popped.

2) Based on above I am leaning towards the solenoid relay or the start solenoid being bad. I am hoping it is just the relay.

3) Another test to validate the key switch was okay. I unplugged the key assembly and put in a 15 amp fuse in Rear #1 and it blew. So the short at this point is NOT in the key switch itself I don't believe.

So, I will be calling Spartan and Newmar tomorrow to see about schematics for the bus. In the interim if anyone knows where the started /solenoid relay is located, please let me know so I can test that out. I am really hoping it is that and not the solenoid itself.

Another quick question. Does anyone have a way to test the BIRD. Someon on the board suggested that I check that out as it may be jammed and affecting the starter circuit? Don' t know how but while I am playing electrician I guess it won't hurt.

Thanks to everyone and skip, it was great not having to look up the Spartan number

George
gmccausland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2015, 01:32 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Texas Boomers Club
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Nor'easters Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
On my 2001 the start relay ( at least one of them) is on the passenger side just above the starter area in the engine compartment.The actual relay is a square one with a skirt on the bottom, secured with a zip tie with wires in a bundle below.

One problem is that the relay has round pins and most newer ones have blade pins. A while back I thought I had a problem that relay and it turned out to be an intermittent starter, but I never lost the dash items you did.

There also is a relay on mine in the powercontrol panel under a pull up cutout in the top of the dash in front of the steering wheel. A few of those relays are soldered in and can not be removed. I popped the one out to replace it and had to get an entire new board from Newmar, just so you know.
__________________
2016 Bay Star Sport downsize from 2001 MountainAire
Toad GMC Terrain, might leave it home on some trips.
hillboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2015, 02:01 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
GaryKD's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wellington, Florida
Posts: 13,164
Hi gmccausland,
The BIRD is for charging batteries. It has no connection to the starting circuit. Take the BIRD off your list of possible guilty components.
__________________
Gary
2005 Newmar KSDP 3910 + GMC ENVOY XUV 37K lbs Moving Down The Road
The Avatar Is Many Times Around The USA
Nobody Knows Your Coach Like Somebody Who Owns One Just Like Yours
GaryKD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2015, 03:36 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Texas Boomers Club
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Nor'easters Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillboy View Post
On my 2001 the start relay ( at least one of them) is on the passenger side just above the starter area in the engine compartment.The actual relay is a square one with a skirt on the bottom, secured with a zip tie with wires in a bundle below.

One problem is that the relay has round pins and most newer ones have blade pins. A while back I thought I had a problem that relay and it turned out to be an intermittent starter, but I never lost the dash items you did.

There also is a relay on mine in the powercontrol panel under a pull up cutout in the top of the dash in front of the steering wheel. A few of those relays are soldered in and can not be removed. I popped the one out to replace it and had to get an entire new board from Newmar, just so you know.
My thoughts on this:
The start circuit relay that I mentioned in the rear engine compartment is activated by the ignition switch. Allit does is close a 12volt circuit that powers the starter solinoid, just another switch, but a big one, which when it recieves power, the power activates(closes) a magnetic switch in the solinoid which completes/ allows the direct power flow from the starting batteries to the starter. No insult intended You probably know this.



First, turn the key on with the direct circuit you made If you can reach the small wire posts on the starter solenoid you could use a screw driver to cross them and see if the starter will turn. You may blow the fuse again but then you will be pretty sure you have a bad starter solenoid.

If you turn the key with the direct wired circuit you ran to the keey switch, to the start position but not all the way to the point of engaging the starter... and then with some help touch a jumper cable from the batteries to the hot post on the starter.
IF you are not sure how this works don't do it!!!, lots of power in the starting batts.
When you contact the hot post ( the ground post on mine is at the bottom of the starter) if the starter turns you probably/definitely have a bad solenoid on the started. The engine might start at this point so be ready for that. Best to use two sets of jumpers between the batteries and the starter. that way you can be out from under when you make the contact. Touch the jumper from the starter post to the jumper coming from the starting battery. Safety glasses for sure. One solid touch together should give you the answer. Be sure the end connected to the hot post is clear of any other contact with the frame etc. Just use the Pos or red side of both jumpers. The starter is grounded to the chassis.
__________________
2016 Bay Star Sport downsize from 2001 MountainAire
Toad GMC Terrain, might leave it home on some trips.
hillboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2015, 05:46 PM   #12
Member
 
gmccausland's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kalamazoo
Posts: 44
Send a message via Skype™ to gmccausland
Hillboy. Excellent post and that is exactly where I am heading next weekend when I can get back up north. I have a manual remote starter I use on cars and larger diesel trucks but I left it at home. I thought I would do what you have outlined. Run power to dash, use the remote start to "jump" across the solenoid, tired of sparks! If engine starts we are down to the relay(s) in the starter circuit. I noticed at least one is soldered on the board in front of the bus. But great idea. Thanks for the help.

Now, as long as it does not rain next weekend so I have to swim under the bus looking for solenoids, relays etc.

George
gmccausland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2015, 07:30 PM   #13
Member
 
gmccausland's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kalamazoo
Posts: 44
Send a message via Skype™ to gmccausland
Okay, what if I get it started?

I was walking through the steps to test the "starter" circuit and though, wow, if it does start how do I turn it off? Turn off the key? Any thoughts?
gmccausland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2015, 06:23 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Texas Boomers Club
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Nor'easters Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmccausland View Post
I was walking through the steps to test the "starter" circuit and though, wow, if it does start how do I turn it off? Turn off the key? Any thoughts?
Yes, shut off the key. If the starter turns and the engine does not start, then you know the starter is OK but there is a problem some place else.

You could leave the key off and jump the starter if all you want to do is check the starter.

obviously you want the transmission in neutral. and the park brake set.
__________________

__________________
2016 Bay Star Sport downsize from 2001 MountainAire
Toad GMC Terrain, might leave it home on some trips.
hillboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ignition, power



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lost Ignition Power 7.4L Workhorse in 2000 Thor Hurricane (pics) jones101 MH-General Discussions & Problems 10 08-07-2015 05:56 PM
Ignition switch and electric door locks chigginsct Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum 2 12-17-2014 11:25 AM
Pursuit 33BHP - converter power switch? wfcentral Forest River Owners Forum 1 10-07-2014 03:00 PM
2003.Discovery help no ignition power Alanboss Class A Motorhome Discussions 3 03-28-2014 06:05 AM
looking for 12V ignition power in 1996 F350 Rockyroad Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum 2 10-23-2013 11:04 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.