Own A Newmar With Electric Slide Outs... Read THIS!

[SLS]

Originally Posted by VP Chianese

I have been thinking and of course that is not always good.

When doing this modification you are moving the motor about a 1/4" away from the bracket by using the nuts as a stand off. Two things come to mind. One is that the motor now is not flush to the bracket which served as a unit to make the bracket stronger. We already know that some of those brackets were suspect to bending. The one on my 2015 DS did and had to be replaced due to flexing. Second is how does that effect the geometry between the drive motor and the shaft it is turning? I don't have one to look at so that puzzles me. The slide on the kitchen 2018 DS is different that than the 2015. Brackets and motor mount both.

I like the part of the repair that replaces the bolts with studs that bottom out in the motor casing. I think there is some merit in doing that. If I were to repair a 2015 I would think about pulling each bolt out one at a time. Replace the bolt with the threaded stud and red LocTite seating the stud to the bottom using the allen wrench. Then the washer and nut with blue LocTite to finish it off. Stud is never coming out and the nuts can be removed when need be. The motor is flush to the bracket making for no chance of flexing and a rigid unit.

Hello VP,

I did not go into all the detail on why my "Fix" would eliminate other problems caused by the mounting of the motor drive/gearbox to the brackets. Now that you have brought up some more points of interest I will explain.

I need to explain why the "Fix" used the Nordlock washer and nut against the aluminium boss. My aluminum bosses were damaged by the slots on the brackets (see pictures) and the torquing or the drive motor/gearbox at each end of the travel. As this action happens it wears the bosses and that's why a bolt that is just loctited may not come out but the drive motor/ gearbox will still be loose to the mounting brackets. Just because the bolt is tight (loctite) does not mean the motor drive/gearbox is tight to the brackets.

As explained by bruceisla about the bracket being sandwiched between the two nuts. This would strengthen the bracket due to a solid mounting of the drive motor/gearbox to the brackets.

You are right that the studs vs bolts into the aluminum bosses is better than any bolt and that you can put them in without removing the motor drive/gearbox. This could be harder to do because of the lack of space to working on the upper bolts and will not stop the aluminum bosses from wear in the bracket slots.

"Second is how does that effect the geometry between the drive motor and the shaft it is turning?"

My first answer would be Much Better. My second answer would be that the distance 1/4" is not significant. If the motor drive/gearbox was mounted solid to the brackets it could be placed anywhere on the shaft. There is not any change in the geometry of the motor drive/ gearbox or how it functions. The only thing the "Fix" does is properly secure the motor drive/gearbox to the mounting brackets.

FYI, my 2017 DSDP was six months old and the night before my long awaited appointment for my MCD shade repair (I was in my Shop) the slide was stuck out. I called the Newmar hot line and when they did not call back after four hours I decided I had to do something. I will not tell all that I tried but I ended up removing both motors and pushed the slide in by hand. (very easy). Out of this desperation not to miss my shade appointment and now slide repair I learned how easy it is to remove these motor drive/gearboxes. If anyone ever has a slide problem they will wish they spent the 45 mins to ???? hours doing this "Fix" and know how this system functions on their coach. The "Fix" came one year later when I read the first thread on this slide issue and with the dealer repair of washers on both sides and red loctite, mine were all loose. I decided to fix mine. This "Fix" was after several attempts to do do what many owners have suggested on this issue.
I thank "bruceisla" for simplifying my fix and hope he can shorten this post.....

[VP Chianese]

Originally Posted by SLS

Hello VP,

I did not go into all the detail on why my "Fix" would eliminate other problems caused by the mounting of the motor drive/gearbox to the brackets. Now that you have brought up some more points of interest I will explain.

I need to explain why the "Fix" used the Nordlock washer and nut against the aluminium boss. My aluminum bosses were damaged by the slots on the brackets (see pictures) and the torquing or the drive motor/gearbox at each end of the travel. As this action happens it wears the bosses and that's why a bolt that is just loctited may not come out but the drive motor/ gearbox will still be loose to the mounting brackets. Just because the bolt is tight (loctite) does not mean the motor drive/gearbox is tight to the brackets.

As explained by bruceisla about the bracket being sandwiched between the two nuts. This would strengthen the bracket due to a solid mounting of the drive motor/gearbox to the brackets.

You are right that the studs vs bolts into the aluminum bosses is better than any bolt and that you can put them in without removing the motor drive/gearbox. This could be harder to do because of the lack of space to working on the upper bolts and will not stop the aluminum bosses from wear in the bracket slots.

"Second is how does that effect the geometry between the drive motor and the shaft it is turning?"

My first answer would be Much Better. My second answer would be that the distance 1/4" is not significant. If the motor drive/gearbox was mounted solid to the brackets it could be placed anywhere on the shaft. There is not any change in the geometry of the motor drive/ gearbox or how it functions. The only thing the "Fix" does is properly secure the motor drive/gearbox to the mounting brackets.

FYI, my 2017 DSDP was six months old and the night before my long awaited appointment for my MCD shade repair (I was in my Shop) the slide was stuck out. I called the Newmar hot line and when they did not call back after four hours I decided I had to do something. I will not tell all that I tried but I ended up removing both motors and pushed the slide in by hand. (very easy). Out of this desperation not to miss my shade appointment and now slide repair I learned how easy it is to remove these motor drive/gearboxes. If anyone ever has a slide problem they will wish they spent the 45 mins to ???? hours doing this "Fix" and know how this system functions on their coach. The "Fix" came one year later when I read the first thread on this slide issue and with the dealer repair of washers on both sides and red loctite, mine were all loose. I decided to fix mine. This "Fix" was after several attempts to do do what many owners have suggested on this issue.
I thank "bruceisla" for simplifying my fix and hope he can shorten this post.....

Thanks and I understand. But if there was no wear as in a unit that the bolts had not come loose could it not be simplified as I said? My thoughts are that the ones that are reoccurring have as you said, enlarged the holes and your Fix with the nuts on each side may be the best repair. But there are units that the bolts have not become loose enough or at all and just replacing the bolts with your stud idea and nuts on only one side would be a permanent repair.

Your thoughts.

[SLS]

Thanks and I understand. But if there was no wear as in a unit that the bolts had not come loose could it not be simplified as I said? My thoughts are that the ones that are reoccurring have as you said, enlarged the holes and your Fix with the nuts on each side may be the best repair. But there are units that the bolts have not become loose enough or at all and just replacing the bolts with your stud idea and nuts on only one side would be a permanent repair.

Your thoughts.

I'm a black or white, 100% right or 100% wrong,...etc......type of person. You have now stepped into a "grey" area for me.......LOL
I think that more slides have a similar problem like I have described vs maybe no damage to the aluminum bosses as you described above. Without removing the motor drive/gearbox for inspection it is only speculation as to which scenario you may have.
The "FIX" will work
The stud only is better than any bolt.
My only thought about the stud only may or could still have the catastrophic failure in time because as the aluminum bosses wear in the slots and the motor drive/gearbox continues to torque and twist. This may cause the aluminum boss(es) to break off as they apply different stress to each stud??
I agree the studs vs bolts is the easiest and better solution if you can reach the upper two bolt or bracket slots......

Lets just shoot the engineer and his boss that approved the OEM mounting of the motor drive/gearbox to the bracket........Just Kidding.......

[bruceisla]

BTW, this is the motor and gearbox (Klauber) on my 2005 Essex (kitchen slide):



as you can see, the webbing between the bosses is not flush with the bosses or the mount/bracket. The only areas that are flush with the bracket are the round areas that are drilled and tapped for the bolts.


No idea what other years/models look like.

[SLS]

Originally Posted by bruceisla

BTW, this is the motor and gearbox (Klauber) on my 2005 Essex (kitchen slide):



as you can see, the webbing between the bosses is not flush with the bosses or the mount/bracket. The only areas that are flush with the bracket are the round areas that are drilled and tapped for the bolts.


No idea what other years/models look like.

My 2017 DS has a brake and square shaft.
SLS

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by SLS

My 2017 DS has a brake and square shaft.
SLS

For comparison, here's one of SLS' pictures of his motor/gearbox:



As you cab see, they are quite different ... which is part of the confusion regarding "bolt problems".


In addition, there are different controllers. Mine uses an Intellitec with adjustable drive force. If you swap a controller (let's say kitchen without the "ramp" vs. living room with the "ramp") you would need to readjust both. This adjustment isn't obvious because the adjustment pot (R9) is hidden under the cover.

[SLS]

VP & Bruceisla,

I am sure glad I posted "How I FIXED MY Electric Slide "Bolts"", and not "How to FIX YOUR Slide Bolts"......

I think the square shaft motor drive/gearbox should be fixed as I have posted.

The round shaft I have no personal experience with. I did read about them on Newgle. VP is correct to replace the bolts with studs and loctite. This is a better fix then using bolts that can not seat to the bottom of the aluminum boss.

I think that anyone with mechanical abilities and square shafts can do the "FIX".
I think that anyone who can take out the bolts to loctite them could also replace the bolts with "STUDS".

I hope the word gets out to the owners of these Motor drive/gearbox to perform one of the repairs above......

Mission Accomplished..............

SLS

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by SLS

VP & Bruceisla,

I am sure glad I posted "How I FIXED MY Electric Slide "Bolts"", and not "How to FIX YOUR Slide Bolts"......

I think the square shaft motor drive/gearbox should be fixed as I have posted.

The round shaft I have no personal experience with. I did read about them on Newgle. VP is correct to replace the bolts with studs and loctite. This is a better fix then using bolts that can not seat to the bottom of the aluminum boss.

I think that anyone with mechanical abilities and square shafts can do the "FIX".
I think that anyone who can take out the bolts to loctite them could also replace the bolts with "STUDS".

I hope the word gets out to the owners of these Motor drive/gearbox to perform one of the repairs above......

Mission Accomplished..............

SLS

I urge everyone to examine their slide motors/gearboxes, the mounting method, the type of controller, the type of slide (flat floor with ramp, etc.) and understand all the components and their relationships. Re-read all of the posts and then decide what action to take. Although everyone reads "slide problems", the issues are complex and varied. However, when in doubt, use Loctite on the bolts as a first action.


It would be helpful if folks posted pictures of their slide motors/gearboxes, controllers, the location (bedroom/kitchen/etc.), and the year/model.


IMHO, there are multiple things going on ... loose bolts are one thing but there may be other issues. Stealth's problem appears different from most.

[bruceisla]

Is it just me or does the clearance between the gear and the remaining portion of the boss look really tight? (as viewed thru the holes) .... Stealth01 damage.

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by MarkK

Two 13.5's in a 3815, cools fine.

are you sure you have the right topic ??

[MarkK]

Originally Posted by bruceisla

are you sure you have the right topic ??

Not even close. Tried to delete, spotty connection. Can't even figure out how that happened.

[Dutch Master]

Good day Fellow Newmar Owners,
Yes, I was also a "victim" of this on going Quality Problem. I found on the passenger side slide the mounting bolts were merely snug and not tight. On the drivers side slide, the bolts were almost 1/4 inch out. I went the route of using Blue Thread Locker - removing the mounting bolts one by one, applying Blue Thread Locker and tightening to 35 foot pounds. I found that the bolts were rather hard to start, since the factory must have used an impact tool to install causing the bolt threads to be rough. Easily can cross thread the bolts. Patience and feel got them back in correctly. I also tightened the screws holding the motor mount to the housing. This eliminated the "bang" that I had when opening the slides. I downloaded the TSB on this problem - (TSB #466) to review it. Looks like the factory has finally "woken up" and started to use thread locker. "Classic case" of purchasing going the cheap route (approximately $0.02/bolt for thread locker) and forcing engineering to accept it (Engineering always knows better and could have avoided this quality problem).
Best Regards
Dutch Master
2008 Kountry Star 3960, Spartan Chassis, ISL 400HP, 2014 Chevy Captiva.

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by Dutch Master

Good day Fellow Newmar Owners,
Yes, I was also a "victim" of this on going Quality Problem. I found on the passenger side slide the mounting bolts were merely snug and not tight. On the drivers side slide, the bolts were almost 1/4 inch out. I went the route of using Blue Thread Locker - removing the mounting bolts one by one, applying Blue Thread Locker and tightening to 35 foot pounds. I found that the bolts were rather hard to start, since the factory must have used an impact tool to install causing the bolt threads to be rough. Easily can cross thread the bolts. Patience and feel got them back in correctly. I also tightened the screws holding the motor mount to the housing. This eliminated the "bang" that I had when opening the slides. I downloaded the TSB on this problem - (TSB #466) to review it. Looks like the factory has finally "woken up" and started to use thread locker. "Classic case" of purchasing going the cheap route (approximately $0.02/bolt for thread locker) and forcing engineering to accept it (Engineering always knows better and could have avoided this quality problem).
Best Regards
Dutch Master
2008 Kountry Star 3960, Spartan Chassis, ISL 400HP, 2014 Chevy Captiva.

Thanks for the info.
Any issues since applying Loctite and torquing?

[Stealth01]

Well, I was going to with hold comments on "The Fix" but those of you that know me know better... I wondered how long before someone noticed the difference in the slide out motors/gear cases. SLS' motor assembly uses a "square drive shaft" to transmit the torque to the cog wheels while the TWO failed motor assemblies of mine use a 'Transtorque Bushing" to transmit the torque to the cogwheels. If you note the location of the "torque plane" on SLS' motor versus the plane on my failed motor you will note the location of the "torque angle"... On SLS' the angle is behind the mount plane while mine, with the Transtorque bushing, is beyond the mount plane... And, with SLS' fix, would be further exacerbated by the addition of an "extra" nut and washer. So, what does this mean in English... Without a "Finite Element" stress analysis of the various motor/gear boxes employed by Newmar we're all just peeing in the wind with statements of "The Fix"! Barring a formal "stress analysis" the best we owners can do is follow Newmar's TSB! Why? Because with each "different fix" we apply with a subsequent failure we provide Newmar with an excuse as to why their "systemic design flaw" failed, we didn't follow their TSB!! I've experienced a failure of a motor with the bolts torqued and safety wired! I personally checked the bolts, they were all torqued and the gear case mounts failed!! The replacement motor has the bolts installed with Blue Loctite. I do not believe that Loctite will solve the issue, I think the issue is caused by "Static Torque Loads" applied when the slide outs are initially commanded to move (slide outs are heavier then ever). We will see if failures continue to appear on "high use" units. High use units are RVs, such as ours, that move frequently with many slide out deployments... Until then, you can add studs, lock washers, or what ever... Just keep checking your mount bolts!!