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Old 04-23-2019, 06:13 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Old-RVer View Post
Have neighbor, purchased Winnebago 24' on the Sprinter Chassis, got it in January 2019, used it 1 week. Been either at Mercedes or Tiffin since, got it back last week.
I think I see the problem there....
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Old 04-23-2019, 06:39 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Dizzee2020 View Post
No need to get one worked-up about safety recalls without researching the recall. It affects only 6 VIN's for model years 2017 through 2019. None of the VIN's are associated with a VTDP 3407. All of this info is available by following the comnet links in 007's Newmar Owners stickies that allow one to read the complete recall notices. These notices are complete with year, model, floorplan, and chassis VIN's to figure-out exactly which rigs that are affected.



To the OP: Congratulations and best of luck with your new ride!
I just posted up the recall info that I get, in this case coincidentally, based on manufacturer's name/year/model. I don't go any deeper into it than that. I wouldn't know a VTDP 3407 from any other cleverly coded acronym. I just put it out there, in case it applies to the OP or anyone following this thread, and because this was a pretty serious sounding problem.
Just trying to help.
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Old 04-23-2019, 06:57 PM   #73
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Please tell me your joking. The auto manufacturers purchase from thousands of vendors. They demand quality. The RV industry is substandard on quality and customer service. Itís all been hashed out hundreds of times on this forum. The original owner has to solve all the problems.
I have always thought there must be a better way forward than just accepting the current situation. People seem to accept the low quality because it is a part time use not full time. Until we decide we want quality over bling things wonít change.
I donít even know if RR has a sunroof option but I bet it is more reliable than our slide mechanisms. I bet the fit and finish are superior. I bet you would have a hard time finding any sloppy construction practices on modern cars. Are cars perfect? Of course not. But they are much better than our rolling boxes full of problems.
Itís pretyy simple really. We know what we want. We know good quality. We wonít pay for it and the companies know that. They will lose sales to even poorer quality units if they raise theirs.
If you buy the most expensive units in the category you will be happier. Also much poorer. A Newell P50 compared to a Baystar. A New Horizons fifth wheel compared to a generic Keystone. No comparison. Need volume sales to make money unless you are a specialized brand offering quality.
Unfortunately I donít know when things will change. I do know that Iím tired of working on my brothers $120K 5th wheel. He has had too many problems to list and either it goes into the dealer for repair or I fix it after each trip. We will be camping side by side for two weeks and Iíve brought all my tools with me. One positive for me is that I have really learned a lot about how not to do things because that is what the companies routinely do. Build it fast. I rebuild it the way it should be and then heís fine. After three years of this nonsense Iím not sure weíre anywhere near the finish line.
Well said.
Bought a certified 3 year old Porsche a couple years ago. When it had problems, I had an appointment within a couple of days, and if repair was going to take more than a day, got a loaner car [Porsche of course] for free until repairs were finished.
Also have had Foretravels and Newells and while they will not generally give you a loaner coach, they will generally try to get you in quickly if you are under warranty. Not commenting on any specific brand of motorhome, but by posts I have read in this forum, appears that a lot of new coach owners just bite the bullet and try to fix problems themselves, rather that wait and wait for service and then hope the repairs are done correctly.
Just like my teenagers, coach manufacturers will get away with what they can get away with.
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Old 04-24-2019, 08:27 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by 09 harley View Post
Please tell me your joking. The auto manufacturers purchase from thousands of vendors. They demand quality. The RV industry is substandard on quality and customer service. Itís all been hashed out hundreds of times on this forum. The original owner has to solve all the problems.
I have always thought there must be a better way forward than just accepting the current situation. People seem to accept the low quality because it is a part time use not full time. Until we decide we want quality over bling things wonít change.
I donít even know if RR has a sunroof option but I bet it is more reliable than our slide mechanisms. I bet the fit and finish are superior. I bet you would have a hard time finding any sloppy construction practices on modern cars. Are cars perfect? Of course not. But they are much better than our rolling boxes full of problems.
Itís pretyy simple really. We know what we want. We know good quality. We wonít pay for it and the companies know that. They will lose sales to even poorer quality units if they raise theirs.
If you buy the most expensive units in the category you will be happier. Also much poorer. A Newell P50 compared to a Baystar. A New Horizons fifth wheel compared to a generic Keystone. No comparison. Need volume sales to make money unless you are a specialized brand offering quality.
Unfortunately I donít know when things will change. I do know that Iím tired of working on my brothers $120K 5th wheel. He has had too many problems to list and either it goes into the dealer for repair or I fix it after each trip. We will be camping side by side for two weeks and Iíve brought all my tools with me. One positive for me is that I have really learned a lot about how not to do things because that is what the companies routinely do. Build it fast. I rebuild it the way it should be and then heís fine. After three years of this nonsense Iím not sure weíre anywhere near the finish line.
I agree with most of what you are saying. All RV manufacturers could do much better. But there are two factors you have to give more weight to. First of all when any RV gets hauled down these rough roads it takes a huge beating. Between all that violent shaking and constantly being in all the elements we are asking a lot out of our little homes-on-wheels.

The second thing you have to keep in mind is the actual value of that "$120,000 5th wheel", because it is not a $120,000 product. The manufacturer probably can produce it for around $55,000 or $60,000, then the dealers gets them and prices them at $120,000. Dealer puts them on sale for $95,000 and not only do we think we got a heck of a deal but in the back of our minds we can't help but think it is really a $120,000 product. It was never a $120,000 product it was always a $55,000 or $60,000 product at best.
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Old 04-24-2019, 09:17 AM   #75
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...First of all when any RV gets hauled down these rough roads it takes a huge beating. Between all that violent shaking and constantly being in all the elements we are asking a lot out of our little homes-on-wheels.

Do you think that the RV manufacturers don't know their products will be subjected to such conditions? Boats, ships, and airplanes all take severe beatings too, yet somehow we don't hear about those products falling apart from it.

You should quit trying to make excuses for the poor quality found in RVs. Until we, as a community, admit that they are often junk the situation will not improve.
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Old 04-24-2019, 09:23 AM   #76
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...The manufacturer probably can produce it for around $55,000 or $60,000, then the dealers gets them and prices them at $120,000. ...It was never a $120,000 product it was always a $55,000 or $60,000 product at best.

I hate to break this to you, Joe, but that's how EVERYTHING you buy is sold. Do you think that the plastic taillight lens for your motorhome costs $200 to make? Or that the $300 tire on your truck actually costs $300 to produce?

Many, if not most, products are eventually sold for about double or triple the cost to make them. It's capitalism and, so far, is still the best economic system there is.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:01 PM   #77
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Very Glad OP coach was fixed, and he is happy, hope I can buy him beverage of choice for posting here and letting us know. Remember, WE ARE IN THIS EXPERIENCE TOGETHER. Comparing RR (assumed Range Rover vehicle-Porsche) is wasting our time. Those companies don't have the complexities that a MH manufacturer has. Crap, I would wager there is more metal in the slides than in either of the two cars mentioned. Be reasonable, NOTHING IS PERFECT, but as many here can attest, (and I will do as well-either way it goes) The dealers and Newmar try to fix and respond to your issues, and I can tell you from experience, it took us 8 years (coach manufacturer was out of business-should never have bought it-looking for a deal) to get all the manufacturing defects ironed out safely, not so much bad equipment, bad choice on installation, bad choices on type of materials used, and just bad engineering, in some cases. I have been talking to NM owners for the past 5 years, asking if they are happy, even the fellow from Canada who had issues, loved the motorhome, and he is still driving it so those things must have been fixed. I have walked into Tiffin, Thor, and Winnebago’s and found things broken, not adjusted right, or not installed correctly. We also looked at going back into 5th wheel, never found but one brand, without defects staring me in the face, salesman comment “oh we can fix that”, then why the hell did you not do it when it came in? I looked over every Newmar, the trim is on, the doors (In and out) latch closed, open level, and behind the drawers is no left over construction debris. Newmar tries hard to get it right before you get it, the (not factory pickup) trip to your dealer starts the “earthquake down the road” process. So when it gets to the dealer they wants a few days to PDI it, and Newmar requires them to do one. The transporters are not allowed to even sleep or use facilities in them, they have to stop and RON in hotel someplace. So the drive to the end destination will not show up all the things that might be not to your liking or break. You are talking somewhere between 20,000 to 40,000 empty weight, which is shaking around when moving, heck when I work in the yard, I shake and rattle, and pop and creak, cannot expect mechanical device to not do the same. Yes, Newell and Marathon coaches are $$$$$$$, but I have friend who owns M and although it is older, he has things go wrong on it, and yep, he fixes them. Until we are perfect, anything we make is imperfect as well. Off my soap box, gosh this fires me up.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:34 AM   #78
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I hate to break this to you, Joe, but that's how EVERYTHING you buy is sold. Do you think that the plastic taillight lens for your motorhome costs $200 to make? Or that the $300 tire on your truck actually costs $300 to produce?

Many, if not most, products are eventually sold for about double or triple the cost to make them. It's capitalism and, so far, is still the best economic system there is.

Really? So that new Ford F150 someone just purchased from their local Ford dealer for $35,000 (MSRP $40,000) was actually given to the Ford dealer by the factory for $20,000 or under?

The boating (large) industry is priced like that and of course the RV industry is also, not sure about EVERYTHING else.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:39 AM   #79
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Do you think that the RV manufacturers don't know their products will be subjected to such conditions? Boats, ships, and airplanes all take severe beatings too, yet somehow we don't hear about those products falling apart from it.

You should quit trying to make excuses for the poor quality found in RVs. Until we, as a community, admit that they are often junk the situation will not improve.
I stated that RV QC (quality control) could be better. I'm not making excuses for them.

Here is an idea. Since we "as a community" feel that they are "often junk" and something should be done, why don't you step up and lead the way? Call your local news teams to a vacant field, read a statement about how bad the quality of your RV is, and then set the thing on fire (with permits of course). I am sure that most discouraged RV owners will be so moved by your leadership that they will follow suit.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:45 AM   #80
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Do you think that the RV manufacturers don't know their products will be subjected to such conditions? Boats, ships, and airplanes all take severe beatings too, yet somehow we don't hear about those products falling apart from it.

You should quit trying to make excuses for the poor quality found in RVs. Until we, as a community, admit that they are often junk the situation will not improve.
Now there is a useful comparison. Let me compare my Ventana and how it is built to a ship ($500,000,000 plus) or plane ($2,000,000 plus). Wow.

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Old 04-25-2019, 07:59 AM   #81
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Really guys???? Is all of this bantering necessary. I think we can all agree that the quality of the builds of most all rvís could certainly be improved. Letís move on.
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Old 04-25-2019, 03:27 PM   #82
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You are correct Steven. Besides, I think LorenB went back to the TT section anyway.
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