sidewall delamination

[lnwilson]

Wondering if there is any way possible to stop sidewalls from checking (small hairlike cracks)any further and turning into delamination. Had roof replaced last year under warranty,out of warranty at this point and sidewalls are showing signs of delamination.
Thanks, Larry
2006 MADP4304

[Lug_Nut]

Hi Larry, Welcome to the forum. The small cracks you describe, could it be just paint cracks? Delamination shows up as blisters on the skin. I did'nt think Newmars sidewalls could or have ever had delamination.

Peter

[Route 66]

Larry, welcome to iRV2.

Peter is correct. Newmar does not use laminated sidewalls.

Newmar may cover this under warranty, as this was an issue with sidewalls from that time frame.

I don't believe there is anything you can do other than have the sidewalls replaced.

Contact Newmar.

[Jetsmania]

Hi Larry! Welcome to the forum! I would call Newmar and talk with them. I would remind them they dealt with your roof and explain to them what is happening to your coach. If they start to act like they will not help, I would tell them that you have heard about other coaches being repaired with the same problem. They may help you. Let us know how you make out. Paul

[lnwilson]

Originally posted by Lug_Nut:
Hi Larry, Welcome to the forum. The small cracks you describe, could it be just paint cracks? Delamination shows up as blisters on the skin. I did'nt think Newmars sidewalls could or have ever had delamination.

Peter

Hi Peter,Dirk & Paul, No wish it were just cracks in the paint. It starts out in the darker colors when the coach is in the sun and heat. We had this happen to our 03 Dutchstar and Newmar did replace the sidewalls on that unit because we were under warranty. We were insured that sidewall delamination was no longer a concern and that they had changed suppliers. We were at camp Newmar last fall for a little over 2 months having our roof replaced as we experienced major water intake throughout the coach from our faulty roof. We were concerned about these little scratch looking marks under the clear when we were there. They told us it was nothing to be concerned about. Now the little cracks are splitting and raising. The heat is what brings them out. We have talked with Newmar and we were informed that we were out of warranty but, they would conact the supplier to see if they would be willing to help out with this situation. The composite company contacted us back and informed us that they had talked with Newmar as Newmar informed them that we were out of warrranty and they would not stand behind it either. We have seen other units come through the park recently. Two 05 Dutchstars and one 07 MTN Aire with similar problems. From what we understand this issue started in 2001 and obviousley is still happening sorry to say. Thanks to all of you for your response. Larry

[GaryKD]

If it were me, I'd start heading up the management chain of command. Sombody between Matt Miller and whoever you talked to should bring some intelligence to the situation.

[rebelsbeach]

Larry, as in several other issues where Newmar seems to have a bad memory, I can assure you that going up the chain of command is the right idea...

Heck, I'd START at the top as it's much less of a run around.

My issues with my two Newmars are now well documented and pretty much history by now, but I can assure you that, after finally getting to the top, I was taken care of.

These sidewall issues are indeed repeat issues and I am disappointed that Newmar now appears to be turning a deaf ear to a customer's needs.

In this economy and industry dynamic, that's not the smartest thing they can do IMHO.

[lnwilson]

Yes, we tried to talk with Matt Miller he refuses to talk with us. You would think they would give us more respect than that after owning 3 Newmars. We have been talking with Matt Utley-VP and Steve Klotz-consumer affairs and so far we are not recieving any possitive results. Steve told us he would talk to higher up one more time but didn't leave any encouragement beacause he said he already knew what their answer would be, and he would get back with us next week. Not sounding to promising. What bothers us the most is that they insured us that this wasn't going to happen when we pointed it out to them while we were under warranty. Thanks for your input and open to any advise anyone has. Thanks, Larry

[Baby Bear]

The times are gett'in tough folks. Now we are starting to see how far Newmar will help with their problems. Believe me, something like this will take down a company faster than you can imagine. Just look at Alfa and what happened there, poor customer service and cheap products.
This is one situation we all should monitor. Everyone is aware of their past wall problems.
It may be our wake-up call!
MR. MIller--Hear us?

[Explore America]

Are the cracks in the paint appearing only in dark colors? Another possibility may be the type of exterior sidewall panels that are being used, especially those utilizing a fiberglass/wood backing laminate. Some manufacturers have discovered an issue of paint cracking or snake skinning pattern in darker color painted coaches subjected to high temperatures. I've been told the issue has to do with the different thermal expansion properties between fiberglass, and the laminated wood backing, resulting in stress cracks in the paint. This issue has only begun to show up in the last few years due to the popularity of darker color, full body paint coaches.

Not too long ago, Fleetwood and Monaco began using C-Tec sidewall panels on their high line coaches. C-Tec is a fiberglass composite sidewall which eliminates the wood backing. It's also significantly stronger, has better thermal properties, and resists delamination. A Fleetwood rep. told me that C-Tec sidewalls eliminates the paint cracking issue. When some out of warranty American Coach owners complained of "snake skinning" paint issue with their coaches, Fleetwood replaced both sidewalls with C-Tec panels and repainted the coaches.

An American Coach rep. also indicated to me that paint cracking in dark color, full body paint, is potentially a problem for any manufacturer using traditional fiberglass/wood backing sidewalls. Which is what most coach manufacturers are still using.

Just something you may want to look into!

[BigRigRVing]

Inwilson,

I just went through all this with checking in side walls, I however am still in warranty, but Newmar has been doing other coaches out of warranty. They call it allowing to you be part of program, average cost is about $6000.00 to $8000.00 to customer (total cost is about $26,000). There is however a law suit over this with RV companys and Dow Cornin the parent company. We had to have our lawyer call/write a letter to get Newmar to do the right thing even in warranty.

Checking lookings starts out looking like a cat scratch, delam you don't get cracks.

As of 1 June 2008 C-tec is being used on all Newmar coaches. If you have a side wall change they put the same stuff you had back on!

Hope this helps! BTW heading back to Newmar our 1 month old walls are coming apart from nose cap.!

[lnwilson]

Gary & Cheryl, Thanks for the input. Sounds like you are going through the same problems we are and have... It is very disheartening. Newmar doesn't seem to be living by their Mission Statement. Which reads as follows:
"Our Mission is to be best in product and service leadership to our customers;to be a conscientious and fair employer; to provide a reasonable profit to the owners; to honor God in all business activities. To reach our mission we will strive to apply Christian principles of;
-Honesty
-Courtesy
-Morality
-Fairness
-Reasonableness
-Reliability
-Integrity
We noticed alot of make shift fixes when were there and wondered why temporary fixes were not changed to a permanent solve the problem shouldn't ever happen again fix.
Why would Newmar being throwing good money after bad by putting the same problem sidewalls back on, are they offering any type of warranty on the repairs?? Knowing that it is only going to happen again 3 yrs later or sooner. It's only a temporary fix. But, we are not surprised at this point. We also noticed on our front cap the top corner is getting a rippely effect?? A little worried about that... Seems like somthing is going on with the fibreglass about the size of a softball at this point.
When we were having the roof replaced and we were concerned about the checking we were insured that it was not an issue. Funny thing is that one weekend they had the coach in the highline building and put a fantastic shine on this thing. It did WOW us, and the highline boys mentioned that Newmar wanted to dazzle us. Which they did, we appreciated it and it looked great, we loved it. But, the sad thing is 9 months later we are sick. It was only a band-aide, the marks that we pointed came back along with their friends to haunt us! At this point sounds like Newmar doesn't want to work with us at all!
So, our other alternative was to trade it in on a different unit, but the two dealers we talked to said that they really were not interested in taking it on trade as they are aware of Newmar's sidewall issues. That was not very encouraging... One dealer in Portland said he has an 01 or 02 that they can't give away because it is so bad. So much for our resale value folks! At this point how many sales do you feel Newmar would have to lose before they step up to the plate and do the right thing.? The funny thing is, we met another gentleman this weekend and he thinks we ought to start our own checking rally. We are glad this site is available for people like us to be able to discuss these issues that we are having.

Thanks, Larry & Naomi
06 Newmar Mountain Aire 4304
08 Chevrolet Duramax 3500
2 Honda VTX1800's

[BigRigRVing]

Larry and Naomi

You are so right about Newmar! They painted our entire coach three times and when it came out of paint in May this year I told them I would not accept the coach, within twenty mintues they said oh it is not a paint issue it is the sidewalls. So we went back in July and just left last week. Yes the mission statement is a joke as is the Newmar Kountry Klub, they say they are to assist customers with problems with the company. BS! The only thing they will respond to is a lawyer.

[GaryKD]

Gary,
What is your problem with the Newmar Kountry Klub? If the statement in your post "they say they are to assist customers with problems with the company" is what you think the NKK does, you're incorrect. The NKK has nothing to do with Newmar product. The NKK is a social organization for those who own a Newmar product. Nothing more and nothing less.

If you could help me understand why you believe the NKK is to assist customers with product problems, I'd appreciate it.