Community Forums

Dutch Star Don · 06-26-2016, 11:52 PM

Usually when you are looking to buy a product, you can buy Good, Better, Best, with the exception of vehicle braking systems. There is no one system that has all the benefits of all the different brands. If I was towing a small, light car, I would probably buy the Night Shift Auto Ready Brute that uses a cable.

In my situation, I'm usually towing a 6K Silverado. For a time, I was towing that same truck with an RZR in the bed, putting me at almost 8K. I wanted a robust system that mirrored the coaches braking system. The two best that I found were the M&G and the SMI Air Force One. The M&G would not fit on my first truck and I went with SMI. The first generation removed a fitting from your brake can and you installed a "T" to pick up the air you needed. This was later frowned upon by DOT. I had this system on my Monaco Diplomat for 6 years and no issues.

When I bought the Dutch Star, I bought the newest SMI unit which is quite a sophisticated unit that will not endanger your coaches air if there is a failure or broken line. As to Freightliner's statement....nothing should be attached to their air system....that is pretty common with any product. I guess I've violated their policy several times. I added the one way valves to the front air bags and a separate air lift system to the rear of the coach. I'm guessing HWH is an even bigger violator since they tap into the air line systems.

With the SMI system on my Silverado and since it was already installed on the coach, I added the vehicle unit only to my CRV. I really don't need much help with stopping the CRV, but I like the extra safety of the brakes and the brake away system which is important.

C.Martin · 06-27-2016, 05:55 AM

I'm all for sound engineering practices...as it relates to safety equipment, such as air brakes. Freightliner, I'm sure, is just trying to avoid having to evaluate and approve, for use, each aftermarket accessory which would like to tap into thier system. Instead...just issue a blanket statement cautioning against the practice.

Having said that...the SMI system is very well designed. It uses a separate storage tank and check valve...an industry standard service valve...just like the ones already installed on the coach. Not only does it protect your coach from failures on the TOAD side of the system...it protects the TOAD from failures on the coach side.

As far as braking safety...the systems on our coach are designed with multiple redundancies. The primary and secondary systems are separated from one another...however, they are also integrated. If you lose seconday air...it appears your spring brake activates and you're going to stop...the end. If your primary system fails...and with it...the service brakes on the drive and tag axle...the safety valves can actually port air from the spring brake to brake the coach. I just can't think of a scenario that would cause a no braking situation...worst case multiple failure resulting in automatic application of spring brakes.

I studied the system before jumping all in...It's good that everyone else is doing the same. Knowing the design of your braking system and knowing it's limitations is an important part of the purchasing decision. Sometimes it's difficult to wade thru all the sales hype.

Bottom line...it's important to choose something...something that is easy to use, that you will use...and works.

Lug_Nut · 06-27-2016, 10:31 AM

Along the same lines as the toad braking is the light wiring. Traditional RV shop wiring has separate wires running from the front of the unit to the tail lights. This is then connected to either newly drilled out holes with new bulbs or diode equipped connections on the exiting bulbs. The later is probably the most popular.

Anyway, noticing the number of Jeep comments leads me to point out a better alternative for those owners. Chrysler Jeep has a wiring harness that is made for that purpose and plugs directly into the vehicle's computer. The wiring harness is about $142 or so. This may eliminate those burned out diodes that seem to occur every once and a while.

Peter

C.Martin · 06-27-2016, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug_Nut

Along the same lines as the toad braking is the light wiring. Traditional RV shop wiring has separate wires running from the front of the unit to the tail lights. This is then connected to either newly drilled out holes with new bulbs or diode equipped connections on the exiting bulbs. The later is probably the most popular.

Anyway, noticing the number of Jeep comments leads me to point out a better alternative for those owners. Chrysler Jeep has a wiring harness that is made for that purpose and plugs directly into the vehicle's computer. The wiring harness is about $142 or so. This may eliminate those burned out diodes that seem to occur every once and a while.

Peter

Peter,

You're right!

I got mine thru Amazon.com.

A search for part number 82211156AB will turn up results.

It was $131.04.

There was an excellent writeup on IRV2.com by FLSTEVE. He highlights where to find the connector in the right side panel...and also the fact that the mopar instructions give you the wrong size hole to drill thru the firewall. His writeup was very helpful...with photos. Make sure to study his info before jumping into the project. It will save a lot of trouble.

Lug_Nut · 06-27-2016, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.Martin

Peter,

You're right!

I got mine thru Amazon.com.

A search for part number 82211156AB will turn up results.

It was $131.04.

There was an excellent writeup on IRV2.com by FLSTEVE. He highlights where to find the connector in the right side panel...and also the fact that the mopar instructions give you the wrong size hole to drill thru the firewall. His writeup was very helpful...with photos. Make sure to study his info before jumping into the project. It will save a lot of trouble.

Thanks, but I already had it installed by the Chrysler Jeep selling dealer. Only thing is, at the plug end is the 7 blade plug. While that is what Newmar uses, the 6 pin with the curly cord is the more popular. The Jeep one is a straight heavy wire,

Peter

Atom Ant · 06-27-2016, 01:02 PM

Just picked up my RVIBrake2. That harness kit is not available for my 97 Jeep, so I'll have to do it myself.

Right now, I just have diodes that prevent the MH light power to the jeep tail and marker lights from backing up into the Jeep system. However, the RVIBrake2 is now going to be pushing the brake.

I assume in a turn I will have turn signals from the MH, but the RVIBrake2 will override the turn signal and just give a steady brake light?

On the newer Jeeps with the Harness, does it cancel out the jeep brake lights and rely on the MH, or the other way around? I know its important on the RVIBrake to verify the install by making sure no brake lights, but if they are bypassed you won't see them, correct?

C.Martin · 06-27-2016, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atom Ant

Just picked up my RVIBrake2. That harness kit is not available for my 97 Jeep, so I'll have to do it myself.

Right now, I just have diodes that prevent the MH light power to the jeep tail and marker lights from backing up into the Jeep system. However, the RVIBrake2 is now going to be pushing the brake.

I assume in a turn I will have turn signals from the MH, but the RVIBrake2 will override the turn signal and just give a steady brake light?

On the newer Jeeps with the Harness, does it cancel out the jeep brake lights and rely on the MH, or the other way around? I know its important on the RVIBrake to verify the install by making sure no brake lights, but if they are bypassed you won't see them, correct?

Exactly...when it recieves 12v power thru the harness...it changes the JEEPs taillights to match the motorcoaches signal. However...the third brakelight is not influenced by the motorcoaches signal--- BUT, when your brake pedal moves n the JEEP...that actuates the center brake light on the JEEP. So everything works...

Atom Ant · 06-27-2016, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.Martin

Exactly...when it recieves 12v power thru the harness...it changes the JEEPs taillights to match the motorcoaches signal. However...the third brakelight is not influenced by the motorcoaches signal--- BUT, when your brake pedal moves n the JEEP...that actuates the center brake light on the JEEP. So everything works...

Ah thank you! That makes sense.

Looks like I'll need to undo some stuff. I installed a taillight converter to actually make the center brake light come on when both MH taillights come on. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'll have to remove that.

Mr_D · 06-27-2016, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latrice

We had two tow cars outfitted with the SMI Stay N Play systems when we had our Class C gasser and we loved the security we felt when towing.

Now that we have our VT3436 with air brakes, we understand that we will have to replace the Stay N Play with Air Force One, or some other brand that will be compatible with air brakes.

We are leaning towards SMI's Air Force One, but after watching an installation video and realizing that the air line must be cut to integrate the braking system line, we are a little reluctant to create a weakness in the coach's air brake line that may become problematic down the road.

Are we being too cautious? What other brands do others on this forum use?

I've had the RoadMaster BrakeMaster 9160 unit on two MH's and two toweds and have never had a problem with tying into the air line, nor any problems with the brakes on the MH or towed.

C.Martin · 06-28-2016, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug_Nut

......Only thing is, at the plug end is the 7 blade plug. While that is what Newmar uses, the 6 pin with the curly cord is the more popular. The Jeep one is a straight heavy wire,

Peter

Peter,

I used both... the Mopar harness...and then cut the bargman cord...and attached it to the Blue Ox 7 to 6 pin kit. I made the cut beyond the 6-pin connector. I had to first map all the conductors with a multi-meter to see what wire went to what...of course the conductors change color between the mopar 6-pin connector and the 7-pin connector...so I mapped it in reverse to figure out which wires went where in the Blue Ox connector.

Worked out though...

C.Martin · 06-28-2016, 05:37 AM

I have no idea why all my photos get flipped in weird directions...

newmarpusher · 06-28-2016, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latrice

We had two tow cars outfitted with the SMI Stay N Play systems when we had our Class C gasser and we loved the security we felt when towing.

Now that we have our VT3436 with air brakes, we understand that we will have to replace the Stay N Play with Air Force One, or some other brand that will be compatible with air brakes.

We are leaning towards SMI's Air Force One, but after watching an installation video and realizing that the air line must be cut to integrate the braking system line, we are a little reluctant to create a weakness in the coach's air brake line that may become problematic down the road.

Are we being too cautious? What other brands do others on this forum use?

While I have already purchased the Air Force one, I continue to use the StayNPlay with my Ventana DP since I haven't gotten around to installing it. I also used it on my previous DP for 5 years.

The AirForce one will work better because it is truly proportional, operated by the coache's air rather than forward momentum. The StayNPlay works just as well as it did on my gasser on the DP.

Sent from my iPad using iRV2 - RV Forum

Atom Ant · 06-29-2016, 12:17 PM

Well, I just spoke with a buddy that bought my cooler, and he just trashed his car with the RVIBrake2 this last weekend. He just installed it. I feel really bad for him.

His error was jumping in to make sure the car was out of gear and he pushed the brake pedal out of habit - critical error with the RVIBrake2 as it resets the piston to a new "normal" and that becomes the relaxed position, even though the brakes are pressed. It gives no warning other than the brakes lights of the towed car are on while sitting still.

It did some awful damage, tires, wheels, brakes, axle boots, etc...

I think I will be pro-active and take some of the SMI technology and incorporate it into my RVIBrake2 - and that is a simple LED light on the dash of the towed vehicle that I can see from the rear view camera that tells me the actual brake pedal is depressed. I'll come right off the brake light switch and add a switch to turn it off when not using it. Not as perfect as a dash warning light, but I think if its bright enough I would detect it pretty fast.

PanJH · 06-29-2016, 02:30 PM

I recently went with an M&G unit in my new F-150. The M&G hooks into the toads master cylinder and taps into a metered airline on the coach. Once you do the install, everything is out of sight and the hook up involves attaching the air line between the two , the light harness and the breakaway cord. Takes a few seconds to hook everything up. Since this was my first time at installing one of these, I took my time and made sure I was doing it right. It may have taken 2 hours. Now that I know how to do it, probably an hour would handle the installation.