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Old 03-23-2019, 05:46 PM   #85
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Old 03-24-2019, 12:34 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceisla View Post
Probably not ... I do mine in the "almost retracted" position. I bring them in and re-extend a few inches. I do that to give me room to work but also to unload my powered locks (paddle style lock). I also have my slide motors and locks adjusted as low as possible but still working (Intellitec adjustable controllers). My bolts are held with flat washers (no split washers) and blue Loctite. Nordlock washers will be installed when I get a chance. Witness marks are a good idea. Don't forget that Loctite (wet) recommends 20% less torque (it's a lubricant).


I could not find this on Loctite's website. Where did you see it?
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:06 AM   #87
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[/B]

I could not find this on Loctite's website. Where did you see it?

Here's an example. The recommendation is to use the torque spec listed in the various bolt specs in the column marked "wet" or "lubricated".

Bolt Torque Chart

Adjusting torque values for Loctite


BTW, here's an interesting read regarding different types of fasteners.
https://engineerdog.com/2015/01/11/1...out-fasteners/
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:00 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by bruceisla View Post
Here's an example. The recommendation is to use the torque spec listed in the various bolt specs in the column marked "wet" or "lubricated".

Bolt Torque Chart

Adjusting torque values for Loctite


BTW, here's an interesting read regarding different types of fasteners.
https://engineerdog.com/2015/01/11/1...out-fasteners/
I searched again the TSBs on my coach for slide motor bolts and it seems that TSB 472 is the most recent. This is copied from the TSB.

"Correction: Check for proper torque of all mounting bolts on all electric slideout motors. If any bolt is under- torqued, remove the bolt, and add blue LOCTITE® thread sealant to the bolt threads. Reinstall and torque all 5/16” bolts to 19 ft. lbs. and all 3/8” bolts to 33 ft. lbs."

I would hope that Newmar engineers are taking everything into consideration before publishing these numbers.
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Old 03-24-2019, 08:33 AM   #89
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I searched again the TSBs on my coach for slide motor bolts and it seems that TSB 472 is the most recent. This is copied from the TSB.

"Correction: Check for proper torque of all mounting bolts on all electric slideout motors. If any bolt is under- torqued, remove the bolt, and add blue LOCTITE® thread sealant to the bolt threads. Reinstall and torque all 5/16” bolts to 19 ft. lbs. and all 3/8” bolts to 33 ft. lbs."

I would hope that Newmar engineers are taking everything into consideration before publishing these numbers.
I also would "hope" but not assume. Newmar has denied the existence of the problem for years. The TSB does not address problems on units prior to 2015 although those problems are well known. Newmar also claims the issue is bolts that are under-torqued ... there is no mention of a possible design issue. In my case, the bolts originally had split washers against a slotted hole. That is not a recommended practice. Newmar is also apparently quoting a spec for a grade 8 steel bolt ... there is no mention of the type or grade of the receptacle (motor casting). Additionally, Newmar's instructions don't include cleaning and prepping the threads before Loctite application. Since this problem has been around for years, I have no confidence in Newmar's ability to correct the problem. There are various "fixes" mentioned in various posts here on IRV2 ... we can pick one we are comfortable with. Most have been improvements but, without understanding the slide usage, its difficult to access the best solution. There are a lot of variables including slide type, slide weight, controller type, and controller torque setting. Blue Loctite is certainly an improvement over the original installation.

My favorite is a variation of the fix described by SLS. Bolts replaced with socket head studs with Loctite (hand threaded and barely bottomed), flange nut facing bracket/Nordlock washer/mounting bracket/Nordlock washer/flange nut in that sequence. No split washers. Clamping pressure is applied to the mount and washers/nuts but not the motor (a wrench is required on motor side nut). Witness marks for inspection. I inspect at least monthly (sometimes, based on cycles, more frequently).

Everyone can choose a method they prefer or follow Newmar's TSB.
Newmar (via the TSB) is recommending annual inspection ... good luck to all with that frequency.

It's a hot mess !!
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:06 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by bruceisla View Post
I also would "hope" but not assume.

My favorite is a variation of the fix described by SLS. Bolts replaced with socket head studs with Loctite (hand threaded and barely bottomed), flange nut facing bracket/Nordlock washer/mounting bracket/Nordlock washer/flange nut in that sequence. No split washers. Clamping pressure is applied to the mount and washers/nuts but not the motor (a wrench is required on motor side nut). Witness marks for inspection. I inspect at least monthly (sometimes, based on cycles, more frequently).
Thank you. I agree the SLS method looks like the best solution. Before I attempt that, I plan to remove all the bolts, clean, Loctite and torque them on all three motors this spring per the Newmar specs. If they loosen again, I'll try the SLS method. Thanks again for your input!
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:58 AM   #91
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Thank you. I agree the SLS method looks like the best solution. Before I attempt that, I plan to remove all the bolts, clean, Loctite and torque them on all three motors this spring per the Newmar specs. If they loosen again, I'll try the SLS method. Thanks again for your input!

My pleasure!

Your plan should work but I do recommend the addition of witness marks and frequent inspection.


BTW, I noticed in the TSB that (apparently) Newmar is recommending checking the torque and if it isn't below spec they aren't removing the bolts and adding Loctite. So ... they are doing the "if it ain't broke (yet) don't fix it" routine.
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Old 03-24-2019, 12:52 PM   #92
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I recently checked my 2019 bolts and all are tight. The bolt head is now a 1/2" on all sides. Still no flat washers.
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:37 PM   #93
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Just to spread some hope out there. Picked up VTDP4369 in October. About 6000 miles and 60-70 cycles on slides. Witness marks I had Newmar put on show none of the bolts have moved. So maybe locktite is working?
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:51 PM   #94
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Just to spread some hope out there. Picked up VTDP4369 in October. About 6000 miles and 60-70 cycles on slides. Witness marks I had Newmar put on show none of the bolts have moved. So maybe locktite is working?

There is hope ... I heard someone actually reached 71 cycles
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Old 03-24-2019, 06:19 PM   #95
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I'm really not too worried about it. Be very thankful for what you have. I mean - its something we now know to keep in front of us and keep our eyes on. We could have real problems - like those folks that have Schwintech slides. Now there's a real issue!
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:29 AM   #96
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Here's an example. The recommendation is to use the torque spec listed in the various bolt specs in the column marked "wet" or "lubricated".

Bolt Torque Chart

Adjusting torque values for Loctite


BTW, here's an interesting read regarding different types of fasteners.
https://engineerdog.com/2015/01/11/1...out-fasteners/
Thanks for the links. It appears that Newmar is taking a band aid approach to the problem by applying general rules of thumb rather than developing an engineered solution. I don't think they realize the scope of the problem.
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Old 03-27-2019, 07:38 PM   #97
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Well, I finally got around to checking the bolts on the kitchen slide motors on the 2018 MADP. I had previously checked the bolts on the bedroom slide motor and they were still tight. Not the case with the kitchen slide.

After figuring out how to remove the plastic motor cover (there is a hidden screw) and contorting my ancient body into the approximate shape of a pretzel, I was able to check the front motor on the kitchen slide. Three of the four bolts were about 1/4-turn loose...not too bad. The fourth bolt had backed out several turns (about 1/2 inch).

I removed each bolt...one-at-a-time...and there was no evidence of any thread locker ever being applied. C-mon, Newmar, let's get with the program here.

I didn't have time to do one of the suggested mods using studs, washers and nuts in place of bolts, so each bolt was cleaned, Loc-Tite Blue was applied and the bolt torqued to specs. I'll do a permanent mod down the line.

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Old 03-28-2019, 04:23 PM   #98
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Broken but bolts not loose.

This is my first post on this forum. Ive joined because of the countless times Ive used the great info here to help diagnose, repair and maintain my parents rv and the several others I maintain as a self employed mechanic.... and especially because of the topics on slide motor bolts.

That said, these bolts loosening up are a major concern, and keeping the bolts tight is important. Loctite, longer bolts and studs are all a step in the right direction. But not the only problem with these gear motor.

The bracket's slotted mounting holes, on most of the intallations ive seen, are severely comprimising the stabilty of the mounting bosses (threaded holes) cast into the housings. Each of the 4 mounting locations has avery thin section of contact on each side. This small contact area smashes the aluminum underneath it from the torsional flex of the mounting plate. As soon as a small amount of aluminum wears away, the bolts will be loose with or without locking methods.

My parent's 2014 baystar sport has broken parts of the bedroom slide (welds broken and now the motor housing of the living room slide. The motor housing broke it's bosses just like all the pics on here and other forum posts. They bought it new 3 years ago, and I have checked the bolts a few times since then. The bolts have never been loose.

The bracket is very flimsy (read thin). Its supposed to be by design. The bracket has been engineered to flex. The welds that secure this bracket to the coach were terrible on this installation, and cracked in many places.

Some of the blame belongs to the incorrectly adjusted intelitech controllers allowing too much current draw on the motors. Even with that in check, these brackets are twisting more than you would believe! (check for yourselves!) When these brackets twist, the bolts are being pulled and rocked at the same time. The bolts dont give, the housing does.

Fixing this gear motor's problem requires the mounting surface to be solid, stay flat, proper current limiting adjustment by the controllers and I think that the motors need another secondary mount on the other end of this oblonged gear housing. Im designing and fabbing a pair of sandwiching braces that will use all 4 mounting holes and 8 of the screw holes on the other side of the housing. I plan to extend these braces far enough to the other end of the housing to create an outboard mounting surface for a simple triangulated support bracket.

This all may seem overkill (sorry for mile long first post), but I hate the idea of my folks being stuck with the slide open. We'll see how it turns out, and Ill post more when finished.

ps..... I'm documenting the build dimensions and process incase I have the opportunity to build more of these things for others. I think this design will solve the weak housing problem and the bracket issue without limiting the flex too much.

-Ryan
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