To blink or not to blink....:banghead:

[RonAEgg]

I'm driving a 2000 Kountry Star, Ford V10 F53 chassis..

I'm at the end of my rope and out of ideas on this problem....

My signals and flashers work and then don't...
it's intermittent and has been going on since the day I drove it home.
I turn them on and they will flash for 10-30 seconds and stop.

To add another dimension it is temperature related.... yesterday afternoon at 80 degrees they would only run for a few blinks, maybe 10-12, or not at all, this morning in the cooler temps they have been going for over 7 minutes and are still running as I write this.... (at around ten minutes they stopped and 5 seconds later started back up)
Seems to me the relay(s) are overheating and stopping.

The 2 for the left and right blinkers are new (NAPA) and the book mentions other relays for trailer lighting but doesn't specify where they're located, I found "heavy duty" relays for trucks with multiple trailers etc at $40/each but refuse to put out that much without knowing they are necessary... I put out $130 on the new multi-switch at Fords suggestion and a new ignition switch to no avail..........

I don't have the CD's with wiring diagrams, but do have the books that came with the RV...
Newmar says it's a chassis thing and Ford says the part was discontinued and can't give me a replacement number....

Can anyone help me exorcise the Gremlins from this beast?

["007"]

Welcome to the forum.
Will lead you to two links to show where they are on newer coach's a 2000 Ford chassis I do not have but diagrams may help you. In the middle of this link will show wiring for CA coach as yours.
Some where you may have a fuse panel like this showing the relays.
You can also use this link to pin them down for location and type.
For anything else the links below in my signature will help you for anything else in your Newmar.
Good luck, enjoy your coach and safe travels. ------ 2000 KS Brochure === Owners Guide

[azSkier]

its a long shot...

I had a problem like this with a corvette a long time ago.

Focus on the hazard lights. There is a central controller component that controls the flasher activity. My problems were resolved by replacing this component

[RonAEgg]

After calling Ford, again, looking for my turn signal relay, which has been discontinued and they had no replacement number, seriously!

I was referred to Ford obsolete Parts... (513) 731-3304
(for any Ford Chassis owners looking for older parts)

They looked it up and gave me the replacement relay part number FOAZ 14N089-A

TransWest here in Colorado has the part for $5 and some change.
I'll be picking up a few and let you know how it comes out....
I paid $15+ at NAPA for generic Motorcraft Relays that only temporarily fixed my problem!

All of my 13 plus relays were identical numbers and ran fuel pump, wipers, lights, etc...That doesn't include the 9 Siemens relays in the dash on a PC Board behind the instrument cluster and one attached to the Master Brake Cylinder that is somehow related to the blinkers as it was clicking when the flashers did decide to work.
Lordy, lordy... Does it really need to be so complicated.

I also found on RockAuto the listing for relays related to the F-53 Chassis that offered a General purpose relay
Their's were; Part #1R1061
"Airtex/Wells' custom, application-specific integrated circuit provides accurate resettable thermal shutdown and overvoltage protection to guard against abnormal conditions." also at $5 and change.

I'm pretty sure mine were shutting down for temperature reasons.

Wish me luck....

["007"]

Thanks for all your work Ron I will move a link to the Ford forum technical sticky.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

RonAEgg-

Hmm... My initial reaction is that it's unlikely that two or more relays (and there are four, two each for the coach and trailer turn signals) will fail in the same way at the same time. I'd suspect the multifunction switch or the flasher relay, both of which are upstream of the turn signal relays. I see you've already replaced the multifunction switch, so I'd replace the flasher relay next.

Some questions:

1) Does your coach have the original incandescent bulbs in the turn signals, or has someone replaced them partially or fully with LED bulbs?

2) How do the lights behave when you put the hazard switch on?

3) Does the intermittent behavior affect front and rear bulbs at the same time?

4) If you remove the brake signal wire from the multifunction switch, does the symptom still occur?

5) Does the symptom occur at the coach's hitch connector turn/stop signal pins?

6) Does your coach have combined turn/stop lights, or are the turn and stop lights separate?

7) How many pins in the coach's hitch connector?

[RonAEgg]

Mark,

All good questions.....

They are all 2057 bulbs in the front and rear with 2 small bulbs in the mirror arms that flash, no led's... Tho I've considered installing them

The hazards behave the same as the blinkers and I've never had one side work alone for blinkers or hazards or the front or rear operate alone

Didn't know or expect the brake signal wire to be in the multi function switch will have to explore that

I haven't had the trailer lights blinking without the coach also blinking... that's assuming I would hear the flasher in the coach

The tail/brake lights have always worked as far as I know, I travel alone and this is hard to confirm but the times I tested them while parked they haveworked

They are combo lights front and rear

It's the round 7 pin with a 4 flat adapter and magnetic tow lights.

I am very curious about the flasher being "up line" of the relays... I had assumed the relays were doing the flashing, one for left and one for right under the dash.. and haven't found a flasher of any kind in my book or in digging around under the dash... I also read in the book of separate trailer feeds but haven't found them
I'm focused on getting the coach to work for now and then I'll plug the tow back in

I did find a seimens relay attached to the master brake cylinder clicking when the hazards were operating the other day... it's not listed in the book and kind of surprised me as the2 under the dash were also clicking away...

On a side note this rig had a turn signal buzzer that was more than annoying and when this issue first cropped up I removed it and things worked well for awhile, it looked as though it was scabbed in at some point and cutting it out didn't make a difference at the time...
I spent 2 days at a Walmart when leaving FL last Spring and the new NAPA relays got me back on the road at the time but after driving in the rain most of the day they quit again when things warmed up and dried out before I got to MO.
I first thought of a bad flasher also, that worked in cooler temps and quit when things heated up as that is how it behaves, but assumed the relays under the dash were the culprits.... will investigate the separate flasher idea further.
It's chilly here in CO and I'm sure they will operate fine for awhile, I need another 80's day, they pretty much refuse to run when it's over 80.

I upgraded from a '90 Holiday Rambler which was a good rig but handled horribly on the road and lacked a slide.... the electrical was much more straight forward and never gave me trouble

[l1v3fr33ord1]

RonAEgg-

I have to do some other stuff for a while. I scanned your answers and will have to think through them in more detail. In the meantime, here are three pages extracted from the wiring diagram set I maintain for my coach. Allowing for the fact the Ford can and does change things on its chassis, but often slowly, it's likely the wiring closely matches that for your coach. Give the diagrams a gander.

[jleamo1]

C209 bottom left corner is your solid state flasher. If I remember correctly it is Blue in color. These are common to fail, I have also seem the Multifunction switch (turn signal stalk) also cause this problem.

[RonAEgg]

You were correct......

There is a separate flasher..... but
It's mounted on the firewall on the inside up under the dash somewhere, they ran for 15 minutes and I could hear it and was digging around trying to find it when it quit..... was getting too close I guess!

Man.... looks like I pull the face(s) off the dash again.

FYI
I pulled a taillight bulb and all the others continued, I pulled the left turn relay and the right continued blinking...

Now to find that *&#@% FLASHER......

Thanks!

Gotta be a contortionist to be a mechanic!
I'm too old for this lol.

[RonAEgg]

Mark

I did indeed find the Flasher with help from a Ford Chassis tech.. and there is no doubt it is bad as it would flash and stop as I fiddled with it while getting it out and moving it around....
It was directly behind the steering column at floor level hidden behind the carpet.
In pricing it, I found prices from $44 on Amazon to $33 at Walmart to $14 on RockAuto and TransWest had them at $24

I won't have the definitive answer till next week as I went with RockAuto for $16.91 shipped....
(I've just spent way too much, over $200 and 6 months chasing this thing around and am perturbed at the techs for not putting me in this direction in the first place)

It was the insistence of a separate, tho, hidden flasher that got me on the right track,
Thanks Mark!

The Forums are always one of the best resources around, real people real-world experience and nothing to sell you!

Just maybe all this will save another F-53 chassis owner a headache somewhere down the road.

I think this Gremlin's been banished.....

Thanks for everybody's help!

[jleamo1]

Ron, glad you located it.
If anyone has an F-Series Super Duty pickup they are the same, and fail just as often. On those they were behind the radio down to the left just or above the gas pedal and to the right. Not easy to get to, especially if you have big hands.