Toad Brakes - Some direct questions

[Aridon]

Yes I've searched but I have a few questions about toad brakes. Wife and I are getting our new toad ready for towing and I'm curious about a few things.


Aside from proportional vs non proportional breaking Toad brakes seem to come in two varieties.

1. Does not use the vacuum system or fluid from the toad

2. Somewhat invasive system that uses the vacuum / fluid from the toad to break.



Now we did a test last night and put the car on a slight incline. I did the normal toad set up, put the car in neutral w/ parking break, ignition to ACC etc..

Lower the parking break and we started rolling, pressed the brakes and stopped.

Ok. Released the brakes, rolled, pressed them again. Little harder to get it stopped. By the third or fourth time there was little to no breaking I almost had to slam the pedal down.

So given this, are the braking systems that do not use the toads fluids / vacuum really braking? Especially proportional systems which may stop the car on the first few pushes but after that are they really slowing it down any? I see some of the cheaper alternatives out there that claim to do this and unless I'm missing something it doesn't seem that after a few pressed of the brake they are really doing anything.

I'm asking because we are looking at SMI or M&G which appear to actually recirculate the fluid or use the vacuum system on the vehicle to actually have the normal brake pedal stopping feel. Are these more effective? Obviously they are more expensive.


Now Please understand that I am not a mechanic. I do not have very much knowledge of how things work in a vehicle so please don't harp on me if I have made an error in my observations. I'm just trying to get the proper product thats actually going to work and gain a little knowledge in the process.

Am I missing something?

[Aridon]

Yes I've searched but I have a few questions about toad brakes. Wife and I are getting our new toad ready for towing and I'm curious about a few things.


Aside from proportional vs non proportional breaking Toad brakes seem to come in two varieties.

1. Does not use the vacuum system or fluid from the toad

2. Somewhat invasive system that uses the vacuum / fluid from the toad to break.



Now we did a test last night and put the car on a slight incline. I did the normal toad set up, put the car in neutral w/ parking break, ignition to ACC etc..

Lower the parking break and we started rolling, pressed the brakes and stopped.

Ok. Released the brakes, rolled, pressed them again. Little harder to get it stopped. By the third or fourth time there was little to no breaking I almost had to slam the pedal down.

So given this, are the braking systems that do not use the toads fluids / vacuum really braking? Especially proportional systems which may stop the car on the first few pushes but after that are they really slowing it down any? I see some of the cheaper alternatives out there that claim to do this and unless I'm missing something it doesn't seem that after a few pressed of the brake they are really doing anything.

I'm asking because we are looking at SMI or M&G which appear to actually recirculate the fluid or use the vacuum system on the vehicle to actually have the normal brake pedal stopping feel. Are these more effective? Obviously they are more expensive.


Now Please understand that I am not a mechanic. I do not have very much knowledge of how things work in a vehicle so please don't harp on me if I have made an error in my observations. I'm just trying to get the proper product thats actually going to work and gain a little knowledge in the process.

Am I missing something?

[GaryKD]

Your observations are correct. The breaking system needs to be able to use the toad brakes no matter how many times the brakes are initiated. FYI, I use USGEAR. Like mentioned in your OP, these are not cheap, but the purchase is made very seldom. This means the annualized cost is small.

Consider units that via some method use the toad's brakes no matter how often they are engaged.

The most important thing to remember is what do you need to do each time for a hook up and unhook. Choose the system that best matches how well you do the tasks.

[soricobob]

Sorry, but my M&G cost the same as the Blue Ox brake system, which I returned due to its ineffectiveness. Plus the M&G is easy to live with.

[CSX4350]

What you are seeing is residual vacuum allowing you to push the brake pedal easier, then as the vacuum is used the effort becomes much harder. The ability to brake is still there, it just requires a ton of effort to push the pedal without the vacuum assist.

Most braking systems are designed to be used on a power system with the vacuum gone. On my Brakemaster system you have to push the pedal several times to make sure all vacuum is gone or the brake system will lock up the toad brakes the first few times it is used. I have watched it work and it pushes the pedal down HARD, so there is no problem with it getting the proper braking for the toad.

AFAIK, all toad braking systems work on the same principal, they use the toads braking system to slow the toad, so they all use the fluid from the toad. A few though do tap into the system to apply pressure to the fluid instead of just putting pressure on the pedal to do the same thing.

I hope this makes sense.

[BigSkyBob]

I recently purchased and installed the M&G braking system. I had a Roadmaster Evenbrake which was junque in my estimation and cost me brake pads and rotors on a new pickup after 1500 miles. I installed the M&G myself in about two hours and I won't have to look back as it is a positive, proportional braking system in that the toad brakes can't be applied unless the service brakes on the MH are applied. The M&G cost me a little over half what I paid for the Evenbrake.

[hondo122]

M&G takes 30 seconds to hook and unhook, the only part you move is a coiled airline. That in itself is enough reason to use it.

[RVDude]

Some interesting comparative info is here.

US Gear's Unified Tow Brake UTB, is another one plug wonder that has no setup in order to connect the toad and in that manner is like SMI AirForce1 and M&G air - always ready and never in the way. In fact, my UTB runs through the standard 7 wire toad connector so I have nothing additional to setup to tow or un-tow.

[Mutha]

I have had M&G on both of the RV's I have owned over the last 8 years, and they WORK GREAT!

In my opinion, you would be hard pressed to find a better or more simple system than M&G.

Good luck to you in what ever system you decide to purchase - Glenn.

[RVDude]

mutha: as an engineer myself, I would also say the M&G approach is pure engineering sex - if that is possible. Clean, simple, easy, and highly effective, no gimmicks, no work arounds.

If yo go M&G (or any air brake tap-off system) I would consider adding the Spartan air line isolator system as the air tap-off point for the M&G (as opposed to just t-ing into the air lines), but this is completely up to you. It just makes a clean engineering system even cleaner engineering.

[afrank1971]

Would have to agree with most of the rest, have had M&G system on our Honda Pilot and it works great! My brother had a Brake Buddy, and while they must work for others, it simply did not work for him. He would often give up and disconnect half way down steep hills, having his wife drive the Jeep because he was losing braking. Plus, as most have said, setting up the toad with M&G, or other air brake take off, couldn't be simpler.

Side note, I'm looking to install one on my pickup now, anyone know a good place or found the best priced place to purchase a kit?

[OpaRon]

Threw away my Brake Buddy after it stuck and trashed my brakes (pads & rotors). I wanted the M&G, but it would not fit my 2005 4Runner.

Henderson Alignment installed the SMI Air Force One at Quartzsite and I couldn't be happier with it! Plus, including installation, the SMI cost less than the Brake Buddy. Takes only minutes to set up for travel. Plug up the air line, the electrical connection and the the break away and you are on your way!

[Latitude]

afrank What do you mean "having to disconnect because he was losing braking"?????

Rick

[SNAIL1]

We have used the same SMI system for about 8 years and 50,000 mile and love it. I know there are newer and higher tech units on market but ours still works great and we have had it on two different Ford Rangers. I have called the factory a couple of times and they have been great with answers.