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Old 02-19-2018, 11:25 AM   #1
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Traced the black tank rinse line and found

I pulled the Wet Bay face plate off today and traced out the black tank rinse line

The pex piping starts at the hose connection on the drivers side then goes all the way over to the passenger side and comes up under the bathroom vanity where there is an air admittance valve

Then it returns to the driver side approximately 1 foot from where it started and goes into the side of the black holding tank close to the top
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:29 AM   #2
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Sorry about the sideways pics I have not mastered that yet.

My questions are why did they run it all the way across the coach o add and air admittance valve?

Is the air admittance valve needed?

I count eight pex 90 fittings which is a lot of flow restriction . I am considering running a straight short length of flex hose to the black tank and hope to get higher volume more pressure more agitation.

Your thoughts?
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:44 AM   #3
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The air admittance valve is ESSENTIAL, and is the check valve. These devices break any siphon that may want to develop by allowing air at the highest point in the system when it becomes unpressurized. And the check valve keeps black tank smell from exiting to atmosphere thru the air admitance valve. Shorter length -- well, ok. But I looked at the head of my black tank sprayer -- took it out of the black tank -- and noticed 1) it does not spin, never could, it's fixed, and 2) it had 17 small hole in it that sprayed in different directions. I drilled thes holes a bit bigger. The sprayer is on the curb side of the black tank, 6 feet from the dump valve. I wanted more water coming out, and these holes seemed to be the limiting factor.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:51 AM   #4
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Actually that is an 'anti-siphon Vacuum Breaker Backflow Preventer'.....yes a type of 'air admittance valve'

But when you talk about an AAV it can lead to confusion..those are typically on the sink/shower drain lines


Anyway..
The Black Tank Flush System MUST have protection to prevent cross contamination of potable water source....hence the anti-siphon vacuum breaker backflow preventer
(According to RIVA and EPA)

You should be thankful that it was installed under bathroom sink.
Some have been 'hidden' behind shower walls, inside clothes closets etc.

They need to be installed couple feet ABOVE top of black waste tank.




Now logically cross contamination is 'possible' BUT highly unlikely even under the worst case scenario

Black tank would have to get filled above flush nozzle installation
Black tank would then have to be pressurized
Supply water source would have to fail
Black tank waste would have to flow back thru flush nozzle ---up thru anti-siphon vacuum breaker backflow preventer (which would have to fail) then flow back thru flush connection/hose into water supply source.

That would have to be a perfect RV waste storm


Those valves have failed......which resulted in flooding of inside of RV

They have been removed........replaced with straight & 90* elbows/fittings and then a simple backflow preventer used on end of hose prior to connecting to flush inlet.






Just saying.........
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:01 PM   #5
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OB -- yes you are right (as usual) it's an anti-siphon valve, sometimes called a siphon break. It goes by alot of names, but an AAV it is not. An AAV, as I am led to believe, takes the place of a vent stack in the plumbing drain line.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyMac View Post
OB -- yes you are right (as usual) it's an anti-siphon valve, sometimes called a siphon break. It goes by alot of names, but an AAV it is not. An AAV, as I am led to believe, takes the place of a vent stack in the plumbing drain line.
AAV....
Can be in lieu of vent stack OR in addition to.
Installed on sink/shower drain lines downstream of 'P' traps to stop them from getting sucked dry when draining grey waste tanks.
Negative pressure can occur in sink/shower drain line even with a vent stack due to sudden release/volume/weight of liquids

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Old 02-19-2018, 12:17 PM   #7
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The black tank rinse should be thought of as a way to introduce water into your black tank for flushing, not as a 'power washer' to push the poop away. Just use it to fill your black tank a few inches, then open the dump valve. I do ours 3x rinse and it flushes as clean as it needs to be. (as monitored by using a clear elbow on the discharge.) No need to reinvent the wheel here.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:17 PM   #8
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The black tank is vented, thru the roof, so when the plastic valve in the flush line started leak'n, I put a double door back flow preventer from a house just inside the wall from the outside hook-up and did away with all that hose running up into vanity....
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:30 PM   #9
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Hi - I seem to remember that the code calls for the vacuum breaker on the black tank rinse has to be higher than the highest level water can reach in the toilet. If you measure you should see that. Removing the vacuum breaker and only using a back flow prevention device will not protect the incoming water supply so it's not a good idea to remove it. Also the pressure in the line to the sprayer needs to be released or it may dribble leak in your vanity, another reason for the vacuum breaker. Newmar also puts a drain on that line (at least in the DS) which is an excellent move on their part.

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Old 02-19-2018, 12:47 PM   #10
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How's the in coming water gonna be contaminated when there's pressure there......only way for sprayer to hold pressure would be if it was blocked and if the gate valve was open using a clear elbow, one would notice no flow..........I happen to use one of those in-line garden hose shut off valves right on the end of the hose at the rv connection end
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:23 PM   #11
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You have a better diagram of this plumbing than you would find in a diagram if it was provided by Newmar.
Why they did this have no clue for years we had a tank cleaning fitting that I and other used to clean out the black tank, most of us used a marker pen to say what it was used for so we didn't mix with city water hose.
I never had water from tank rinse ever get high enough to feed back into hose and most of the time of use the black tank valve was open draining the tank, with our clear plastic sewer pipe fitting giving view of how clean the tank became.

I think all the added plumbing was added because someone complained he got sewerage in that hose he was using and wanted a fix, who knows.

Vacuum breaker issues LINK



So with the added plumbing we have had back flushing of water into your sink cabinet and smell problems and other screwier things.

Who knows why it was necessary to place in a sink location inside coach living area, is beyond me, yes I know its higher than the tank..

So people had to change valves because of the leaks and others have just plumbed it straight through without the valve.
You can cut it all out by using a hose fitting off panel wall with back flush valve and to the fitting into tank, at least that is what I would do.
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:07 PM   #12
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Hi - If there is a failure in the fresh water system (city or well) that you are hooked up to without a vacuum breaker it can siphon the black tank back into the water system. It is not to protect you but to protect the potable water system you are hooked up to. The vacuum breaker will only allow water on the clean side of the breaker to run back.

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Old 02-19-2018, 04:21 PM   #13
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I use a crazy method to back flush my black tank. I posted it on this forum under a thread titled "Barker Tanks". Evidently it's common knowledge, but I'd never heard of it till I stumbled across it. Check it out....or not.
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:42 PM   #14
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Impossible, two separate systems.....can't cross contaminate
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