Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn08RV
Hello everyone
Looking for a few open opinions.
We currently have a entegra aspire 2014 and looking to trade for a newmar and can’t make up our minds between Dutch star & ventana
Would love to hear from some owners.
Thx
|
Shawn, I think you will love either of the coaches. I have previously owned a Newmar Mountainaire -gas 2003 model. 2006 Dutch Star, 40 footer, 450 Cummins on a Spartan Chassis with IFS. A 2016 Ventana Le 4044, 360 Cummins on Freightliner. This year I purchased a 2020 Ventana 4369, 400 HP Cummins on the new Freightliner Chassis with rear radiator. As I said, you can't go wrong with any Newmar in my opinion.
Here is what I will say about my new Ventana - best coach of the bunch! 400 HP, but if you read, if you feel you need it Cummins will upgrade to a 451 HP with a chip - my feelings - I tow and I love the 400HP - same torque - which is really the big issue and one of the reasons I wanted to upgrade. As to the radiator thing - never had a problem with either as to radiator, heating, power, maintenance, etc. The side is over rated in my opinion. Now, if you drive your coach 25K per year for 10 years maybe - but I never had any major maintenance done involving radiator issues and the cost for oil changes was actually less on the Ventana with the side radiator - take it for it is worth.
Styling - the new Ventana with the Girard Awnings and new front caps - I like it just as much as the Dutch Star and it has the same high end of upscale coaches. I will let you know about this - and then you decide. I ordered my Ventana - I was able to buy a 4369 equipped the way I wanted it for $262K plus taxes and license fees. So, how important is the money to you - the Dutch Star would have been at least $75 K more. What did I lose I thought I wanted. IFS - but after driving the new freightliner chassis - it has been a dream to drive - so don't miss that. Heated floors - well the Oasis system is standard on the Ventana now - found out it heats the floors very nicely - so that is not an issue - especially if you like rugs - which I do - so again no issue. Bigger engine - already explained that - non issue. Striped painted slide outs - really? Are you that ego driven - I find I don't even notice that unless you are trying to look for something - Dutch Star owners like to point this out - but again think about it- you want to pay $50K plus for painted slide out ends?
Here is something I found - when you order and you are paying for it- you will find you really didn't or don't need many options that dealers and Newmar seem to build on a "dealer lot" coaches. Why? Dealers seem to order more bells and whistles because it makes a better selling coach - the salesmen are taught to always used implied agreement if they any good- of course you want IFS, or of course you want satellite, of course you want the navigations system, etc., etc. and they catch people buying on emotion without thinking about the cost - as it is only "X" dollars more. My coach did list for $370K - you can easily get them listing for $30 K and more. Dealers will tell you that you want to buy a leftover and save the money from a new one - but what they don't tell you, especially on the 4369 tag model - is that it really didn't go up hardly any - why do I say that - well they included a lot more standard features that were options that everyone was buying when ordering this year! Things like the Oasis, like aluminum wheels, things like macerator electric toilets - so when you start looking you may save yourself a lot of money. Is it really worth $1,500 as an example to have the second big screen TV in the living room to you - personally I like the look of the front without the TV up there - cleaner look, more storage, etc.
The useful features of the Ventana are now comparable with the older Dutch Star's and many are better. Locking slideout controls - standard, locking baggage compartment doors, entry door combination locks, the upgraded chassis and column mounted controls on the steering wheel - not on older coaches! Better digital and more accurate displays on all your fluid levels! Both pac brake and engine brakes being built in and standard - plus they now work automatically - no down shifting or turning them on and off when at more than city speeds! Driving up and down inclines is now so easy! The lighting is perfect with the controls they now use. The TV elevator is now beside the chairs - instead of across the room - no getting up to raise and lower it. The step cover is the same as the higher end coaches now - not the folding mechanical - the slide over cover - plus the steps have easily accessible storage under them. The passenger seat now has control of the step cover slide too. Solid wood cabinets is now standard on Ventana's - formerly a $3K option as well.
The chassis, the "box", the cabinetry build, the appliances, the TV's etc. - all the same! Yes you get some things on the Dutch Star. But what are they and what are they really worth - to me - after owning both- it is mostly EGO! I prefer to keep the $75 K in my pocket. Plus I personally think the Ventana is going to catch the Dutch Star in sales - unless Newmar makes something else different.
Comfort Drive - yes it is totally worth the money - I would never have another coach without it. I don't have IFS - had it on the Dutch - was a big difference then - but the new foundation adjustments by both Newmar and Freightliner pretty much eliminated the difference by about 90 to 95% - again in my opinion. Driving the comfort steer coach - makes it really easy to back up, really easy to make tight turns, keeps the coach driving straight down the road by itself, puts no "driver strain on your body and shoulders if you drive a long day- and then their is the safety - the biggest reason! It does keep your coach going straight down the road -in windy conditions too! But think about this - with that feature - what happens on a tire blow out? It will work to keep the coach going straight - that is a fact. It doesn't get hyped - I am sure for legal reasons - but just consider the engineering and drive a coach and notice this affect!
Painted sides of slides - like I said - who really cares or notices? Chassis, engine, AC units, appliances, cabinetry, and the basic box and insulation of the coach etc. all the same! Think about this - if you have never been to the plant you wouldn't know this. The guys who do all the work on the Ventana are the SAME guys who do all the work on the King Aire! Newmar doesn't sacrifice quality in any way- the differences are really the finishes, chassis's and bell's whistles!
Now about heated flooring and carpeting. If you put rugs down on a tile floor - (I do - at home as well) then why would you object to carpet on the slideouts? I had my Dutch Star for 10 years - never had to change the carpet on the slideouts! Think about it - it rarely gets walked on - and the part that does get walked on is in the bedroom - nice warm soft to your feet carpeting - not hard and probably cold tile! Keep a bottle of Folex in the coach for spot removal of stains and grease - you will not be disappointed in your carpet look.
Keep your slide out rollers clean! Then you have no issues with the slideouts and your floors in reality - of course slides can always be a problem- but aren't all slideouts potentially a problem? Why the lifting slideouts anyway- because of the additional weight of the tile on them- needed them because of something that you really don't need - but some people do like that look - but think about how you use your coach - in reality does it look better to you - I happen to like the look of the carpet better - but that is an opinion - and it can be changed very easily and not every expensively as well! Plus the heavier slide outs demand heavier chassis - as well - which is why you end up with more cost and less fuel efficiency - just basic stuff when you think about it.
If your older and have thin skin - one change Newmar made and they made a big deal about it- as I complained about two or three times a year for 3 years - is the beds now have an extra inch of space between the mattresses and wall slides - that was done on all their coaches in 2020. If you have older thin skin- then you know about he peeled skin and blood on the sheets and bedding when trying to make the bed. That is no longer and issue but only on the 2020's!
How did I get my price down so low - because I ordered what I wanted on the coach! I don't have or need the 360 camera toy - I have color cameras that work fine! Its not like I am trying to parallel park the coach! I don't need outdated satellite tv - I stream my tv - much more for much less! I did add the Razer antenna though. I only have the large one sided slide out tray- thats all you really need - and it has the avantage of giving you more storage space too. The 400 HP is fine - but if you must upgrade that for $1300 after delivery! I did AGM batteries - extra - and I am all electric! Love that - I would never buy propane again - get the AGM batteries - you will not be sorry - much longer life and hold the charge longer - no propane worries - I love it - plus much safer as most RV fires have something to do with propane - you know diesel fuel doesn't ignite right? I have the exterior TV - may never use it - but that is a big resale item in my opinion. I did the computer dinette combo, I did the hot water line to the front, I did the added freezer outlet - because Its another power outlet for anything. I got to choose my interior and exterior colors- I mix match parts of all three interior choices- I love my choices - you may not - but that was a neat feature to me.
As you can see I am very happy with my choices- I could have paid more for the Dutch - but that $75K seemed to be better used for fuel, camping fees, etc. over the next 7 years or so. Afterall, in reality, the average motorhome is driven less than 8,000 miles per year - that is in reality one oil change and 1,000 gallons of fuel. Total estimated cost to run the coach for a year including fuel, basic maintenance, insurance and oil changes is much less than the interest I earn on the $75K savings - think about that one as well!
As I said, any 2020 Newmar with all the new technical features and are good choices. If you are buying and can buy new - get the 2020 coach with all the new chassis feature upgrades! You will be extremely happy- and if your ego needs to be polished - get the Dutch Star - but if you are happy with who you are - you will not regret buying the Ventana 4369 - I think the best value in motorhomes on the market!
Linear Mode
