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Old 05-26-2018, 07:31 PM   #1
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Transfer switch with built in surge protection?

Hi all, I read that some of the 39 series Canyon Star transfer switches have built in surge protection. How can you tell? I don't want to find out the hard way! In the meantime I am plugging into a portable unit, SSP-50XL. Is that sufficient?
Thanks
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Old 05-26-2018, 08:01 PM   #2
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Newmar does offer a transfer switch with a surge protector for an additional fee. I opted not to get that on my Dutchstar as I plan to install a PI. Later on I ll get a Hugh’s Autoformer with a surge protector, so I thought it would be a waste to get Newmar s.

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Old 05-26-2018, 08:16 PM   #3
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There is "Surge Protection" and SURGE PROTECTION

They have the first which is really spike supression.

When we talk about Surge Protectors like the Progressive Industries HW-50c we mean devices that contain a computer that monitors VOLTAGE and possibly frequency and if the Voltage goes too high (Say 135) or low (Say 105) shuts off power.. IN ADDITION TO Spike supression (Spikes are too fst for the voltage monitor to register but a different device clips them)

The ATS/Surge guard only clips spikes.
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Old 05-26-2018, 11:40 PM   #4
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I did the factory upgrade which includes a heavy duty transfer switch and cost about $400. Sane protection as the PI unit which cost about $700. Thought it would be less work and less money. I also bought the Hughes Autoformer with surge protection and will install it in the electrical bay. Not sure if PI does but Surge Guard makes a remote monitor for their unit that I will mount in the hall way wall outside of the half bath.
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Old 05-27-2018, 12:11 AM   #5
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You should insure that what ever you get is an EMS unit..
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Old 05-27-2018, 12:24 AM   #6
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A review of the 2013 Canyon Star brochure in the Newmar archives does not show a surge suppressor/transfer switch combo as either a standard or optional feature. Since you show a 2013 Canyon Star in your signature, I presume that's the year/model you are concerned about.

Wa8yxm gave you a good primer on surge suppressors and spike suppressors. Your current SSP-50XL, while not as robust or sophisticated as PI's EMS-PT50X, is superior to anything available as an add-on to the transfer switch. I think it will serve you well, and you will have the additional benefit of open ground, open neutral, reverse polarity detection and miswired pedestal indication.

TJ
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranquil Jim View Post
A review of the 2013 Canyon Star brochure in the Newmar archives does not show a surge suppressor/transfer switch combo as either a standard or optional feature. Since you show a 2013 Canyon Star in your signature, I presume that's the year/model you are concerned about.

Wa8yxm gave you a good primer on surge suppressors and spike suppressors. Your current SSP-50XL, while not as robust or sophisticated as PI's EMS-PT50X, is superior to anything available as an add-on to the transfer switch. I think it will serve you well, and you will have the additional benefit of open ground, open neutral, reverse polarity detection and miswired pedestal indication.

TJ
The dutchstar includes a model that is equivalent to the pi, with the major difference being that it protects both the generator and shore load.

http://www.adventurerv.net/surge-gua...0-p-22408.html

Some will state that being part of the transfer switch is not as good. Installing another less capable surge protector for shore power will resolve that issue.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:49 AM   #8
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My opinion is that these should be separate devices if room permits. I have heard of both the surge protector and transfer switch burning up in various units at different times. A burned up combined unit would be more expensive to replace than either the surge protector or transfer switch separately.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:50 AM   #9
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The dutchstar includes a model that is equivalent to the pi, with the major difference being that it protects both the generator and shore load.

Surge Guard 50 Amp Automatic Transfer Switch w/ ATS 40250 - $609...

Some will state that being part of the transfer switch is not as good. Installing another less capable surge protector for shore power will resolve that issue.
While the Surge Guard 50 is similar (though not quite as robust) as the PI EMS-PT50X, it is twice the price. And, when it does its job (stopping a surge), you lose shore power until you replace the complete transfer switch/surge suppressor unit. And, that's not a trivial job. With the external EMS-PT50X, you can just replace the less expensive unit...or, even just bypass it in a pinch.

Finally, if you need to install a "less capable surge suppressor for shore power," why bother with the transfer switch/surge suppressor unit anyway? It is far less likely that your generator will create a surge than it is for shore power.

TJ
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranquil Jim View Post
While the Surge Guard 50 is similar (though not quite as robust) as the PI EMS-PT50X, it is twice the price. And, when it does its job (stopping a surge), you lose shore power until you replace the complete transfer switch/surge suppressor unit. And, that's not a trivial job. With the external EMS-PT50X, you can just replace the less expensive unit...or, even just bypass it in a pinch.

Finally, if you need to install a "less capable surge suppressor for shore power," why bother with the transfer switch/surge suppressor unit anyway? It is far less likely that your generator will create a surge than it is for shore power.

TJ
Why bother? It's a factory option, making it cheaper than installing another solution, takes less room, and covers both. Function is identical as my current hwc-50, and does not prevent my use of any other device, including adding a hwc-50 or a pedestal.

Just another option. As I stated in my original post, not everyone will agree. I just want to make sure others know that there are options and not a singular choice. No matter what option you choose, make sure you have surge supression that includes the most important features:

Reverse wire detection
Open circuit
Low/high voltage
Surge
Open Ground, Open Neutral & Reverse Polarity*Detection
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milom View Post
Hi all, I read that some of the 39 series Canyon Star transfer switches have built in surge protection. How can you tell? I don't want to find out the hard way! In the meantime I am plugging into a portable unit, SSP-50XL. Is that sufficient?
Thanks
Milo
Newmar have only started offering this as an option for 2019 on Ventana and Canyon Star models, so I am sure you don't have it on yours.
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Old 05-27-2018, 01:13 PM   #12
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The dutchstar includes a model that is equivalent to the pi, with the major difference being that it protects both the generator and shore load.
A "Hard Wired" PI can be wired to protect the coach from both pedestal/shore power and the generator power ... no biggie wiring it up to do so..
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Old 05-27-2018, 01:25 PM   #13
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A "Hard Wired" PI can be wired to protect the coach from both pedestal/shore power and the generator power ... no biggie wiring it up to do so..
Not possible with a single unit if you want to protect the transfer switch. Buying 2 makes it possible.
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:58 PM   #14
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Am I correct in understanding that if there is a surge the all-in-one factory surge/transfer switch need completely replaced. Are we talking about lightning strike or brown out surge. If the box dies with the latter no one would ever buy it. If we are talking lightning strike then true an external surge would be great. We have a hard wired surge prior to our transfer switch, probably had a dozen of surge/under voltage and still haven't had to replace the protector. Something I really don't understand, do we on this forum really believe Newmar would install a device that needs replaced every time there is a power issue?
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