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Old 12-17-2017, 05:12 PM   #1
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Troubleshooting Tile Heat with SilverLeaf

I thought I was done with all of my New Aire delivery problems. During the last two months I have throughly exercised all of the systems but this one slipped through.

We finally have some cool temperatures in the La Quinta, so I have spent some time going through all of the heating scenarios in the NA. The tile heating system in the New Aire has three zones: bedroom, kitchen and living room. When I looked at these settings before on SilverLeaf I just looked at the screen and seeing the heating symbol I figured all was good. Not true.



When I turned on all three zones and let them run I discovered the living room zone was not heating the tiles.

I look at an RV warranty as just catostrophic insurance. If something breaks of high value or I just can't figure out how to fix it, I will take it to the dealer. In most cases I prefer to just fix these problems myself. This is a special challenge in the Nemar coaches for electrical problems since the company will not give us schematic diagrams for the electrical systems.

So step one when trying to fix an electrical problem in a Newmar is to "reverse engineer" the electrical system and draw your own schematic diagram. Looking through the posts on this forum I could not find many posts troubleshooting the tile heating system with SilverLeaf.

Figured I would document my discoveries for anyone else who might need to trouble shoot this system with SilverLeaf.

In the NA there is dedicated 20 amp CB for the tile heat located in the closet panel in the rear of the coach. From the CB the cable for tile heat then loops through a GFI located next to the fuse panel in the closet. See image below:



From there the 120 volt wire appears to loop through three interface boxes: one in the closet just below CB panel (can be seen in image above just below CB panel) serving the bedroom circuit, a second box is located in the bathroom for the kitchen zone and there is a junction box located in the basement electrical area under the driver seat for the living room zone. See image below.



The three junction boxes for each zone is where SilverLeaf switching happens. To control the 3 zones you use the SilverLeaf control panel. Settings in the control panel are then sent via the RV-C network to the TM-229 Tile Heat Controller located in the front overhead switch panel in the New Aire.



As you can see in the image above the controller can handle 4 zones but in the NA only 3 zones are wired. The wires from the controller go to the corresponding junction boxes shown above for the 3 zones.

After I figured out the topography for the tile head system I started to troubleshoot my living room zone to find out why the tiles were not heating.

First step was to see if Silver Leaf was sending the command to turn on the heat. Inside each zone junction box is a relay. The yellow wires coming into the bottom of the box are the two leads from the TM229 controller for that zone that is plugged into a relay in the box. The relay is controlling a 120 volt switch on the hot lead going to the tile system.



I pulled the relay out of the box and unplugged the SilverLeaf lead. Testing the two wire on the SilverLeaf lead confirmed that when the living room zone was turned on in the SilverLeaf panel, 12 volts was tested across the two leads. So SilverLeaf was working.



With SilverLeaf on for the living room zone I pulled the heating CB then plugged the SilverLeaf cable back into relay. The relay immediately began to chatter as I moved the seated plug around while connected to the relay. Not right.

Next step was to pull the relay and take it apart.



And here is what I found. Both solder joints holding the SilverLeaf plug to the relay had broken out of their seats. Most likely happened during an overly aggressive plug insertion during assembly. I re-soldered the two pins on the relay but it back together and now I have tile heat in the living room. Hope this helps should someone else need to troubleshoot the SilverLeaf Tile Heating System.

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Old 12-17-2017, 05:43 PM   #2
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GREAT Wright up, you know your stuff.

Glen
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Old 12-18-2017, 06:21 AM   #3
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Super information TURBOPILOT ...as always you and Ben are invaluable to us future and current owners of the NA

My list of check offs on pre-delivery is constantly getting larger...LOL
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:50 AM   #4
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My list of check offs on pre-delivery is constantly getting larger...LOL
Hope it helps. After two months crawling around my NA there is no doubt SilverLeaf networking changes the experience. In my opinion it is the future.

One big problem. The Newmar dealer network (and even Newmar) does not have enough well trained technicians to troubleshoot and service the system. SilverLeaf Electronics seems to be trying to handle the gap but they are clearly getting overwhelmed since they support many other coach makers than Newmar.

Owners taking delivery of a SilverLeaf equipped coach should be ready to go back to school if they want to enjoy their coach. A user friendly version of Omniscope should be included with the coach to allow an owner to diagnose and troubleshoot the system and related components over the phone with a technician.

Just plain crazy to wait weeks for an appointment, drop off the coach and wait for a technician to call Newmar and change a single parameter from a "0" to a "2" to allow a component to work.
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Old 12-19-2017, 08:59 AM   #5
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Your analysis and trouble shooting was spot on! We weren't as lucky, our bedroom failure was in the heating pads under the tile and required tile removal to repair. Just for other's, a simple way to confirm floor heat operation with Silverleaf, go to the Home screen and note "AC amperage draw" on the screen. Go to Floor Heat page and engage ONE zone of floor heat. Return to home page and verify a corresponding increase in AC amperage. Repeat for each of the zones... If you see a corresponding amperage increase, that indicates the Silverleaf TM-229 module sent a "relay" command, the relay engaged and the heat pads are drawing amperage heating. simple verification method!
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:18 AM   #6
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Your analysis and trouble shooting was spot on! We weren't as lucky, our bedroom failure was in the heating pads under the tile and required tile removal to repair. Just for other's, a simple way to confirm floor heat operation with Silverleaf, go to the Home screen and note "AC amperage draw" on the screen. Go to Floor Heat page and engage ONE zone of floor heat. Return to home page and verify a corresponding increase in AC amperage. Repeat for each of the zones... If you see a corresponding amperage increase, that indicates the Silverleaf TM-229 module sent a "relay" command, the relay engaged and the heat pads are drawing amperage heating. simple verification method!
I was worried that my failure was under the tile. Big repair job. Correct on using AC amps to confirm load on each zone. In the NA the three zones are wired to Leg 2.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:28 PM   #7
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Good Job T - you just saved me a few hours since I had planned to discover where all the control modules were for the floor heat!

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Old 12-21-2017, 08:41 PM   #8
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Good Job T - you just saved me a few hours since I had planned to discover where all the control modules were for the floor heat!

Mike
Thanks. A little disappointing that tile control via SilverLeaf is pretty "dumb". Tile heat settings just increase the time tile heat is on before turning off. Since each of those zones sample ambient temperature to allow thermostatic control of the Oasis system, I don't see any reason why SilverLeaf could not thermostatically control tile heat just like Oasis and heat pumps.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:58 PM   #9
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Thanks. A little disappointing that tile control via SilverLeaf is pretty "dumb". Tile heat settings just increase the time tile heat is on before turning off. Since each of those zones sample ambient temperature to allow thermostatic control of the Oasis system, I don't see any reason why SilverLeaf could not thermostatically control tile heat just like Oasis and heat pumps.
If it turns the heat back on when the temperature drops then it does. Is that what you want or are you looking for a modulated system?
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:04 PM   #10
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If it turns the heat back on when the temperature drops then it does. Is that what you want or are you looking for a modulated system?
Does not turn heat on when temperature drops. Just cycles tile heat on and off with a specific schedule. From the documentation:


Quote:
The floor heat zone settings are controlled by slider bars. Use your finger to drag the slider bar or use the up/ down arrows on the touchscreen display to select your preferred time. The higher the number of bars selected, the longer the heat mat remains ON. An icon will appear above the down arrow for each zone when that particular zone is active (turned ON).


Approximate operating times:
One bar: Floor Heat Off

Two bars: Store mode (Floor Heat will not operate in this mode)

Three bars: On ~2 minutes ("Off time" varies by setting)

Four bars: On ~4 minutes ("Off time" varies by setting)

Five bars: On ~6 minutes ("Off time" varies by setting)

Six bars: On ~8 minutes ("Off time" varies by setting)

Seven bars: On ~10 minutes ("Off time" varies by setting)

Eight bars: On ~12 minutes ("Off time" varies by setting)

Nine bars: On ~14 minutes ("Off time" varies by setting)

Ten bars: On ~16 minutes ("Off time" varies by setting)

Eleven bars: On ~18 minutes ("Off time" varies by setting)

Twelve bars: Heat mat is activated (constantly on)
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:18 PM   #11
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All good info...thank you. My problem is that my two Silverleaf panels donít sync on the floor heat page. I can turn up the middle zone to a 5 on the front panel, but the back panel still shows the middle zone being off. Then I will turn the middle zone on the rear panel to 5 (thereby matching the front panel) but I donít get any heat from the floor.... so my problem is twofold. I get no heat from the floor and the two panels are not synced. As an FYI, all other functions between the two panels work properly and are synced properly.... not sure where to go from here.
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Old 12-26-2017, 09:39 PM   #12
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I'm curious with regard to the floor heat "store" position, I feel its a storage setting so in the event of freezing temperatures, the heat strip will cycle at a low temperature.

Can't see any point in having two off positions.

Thanks Mike
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Old 12-27-2017, 08:57 PM   #13
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All good info...thank you. My problem is that my two Silverleaf panels donít sync on the floor heat page. I can turn up the middle zone to a 5 on the front panel, but the back panel still shows the middle zone being off. Then I will turn the middle zone on the rear panel to 5 (thereby matching the front panel) but I donít get any heat from the floor.... so my problem is twofold. I get no heat from the floor and the two panels are not synced. As an FYI, all other functions between the two panels work properly and are synced properly.... not sure where to go from here.
If you have no heat and displays not synchronize I suspect a SilverLeaf problem. I see your coach is a 2014. Has the tile heat ever worked?
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Old 12-28-2017, 06:56 AM   #14
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Sounds like you may have a TM-229 module issue. The module should be located in the door side aft storage bay on the aft wall. You might want to disconnect/reconnect the connectors and see if there is any change.
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