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Old 01-18-2017, 02:00 PM   #1
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Value of Cummins ISC versus ISB

Newmar Dealer sold us a 2011 Ventana model 3973 a year ago and assured me it had the 8.3 Cummins ISC engine. This is our first diesel pusher and I was concerned that is was not the ISC, but after being shown a work order that said it was the 8.3 Cummins (ISC), we purchased the coach. Now one year later, I had the coach serviced and the technician informed me it is the 6.7 ISB engine. Having "paid" for the ISC, we are trying to work out the issue with the dealer that sold us the coach. During our negotiations the salesman told me, in writing, that the ISC engine added $10,000 to the value of the coach. Is this a true statement and should I expect a $10,000 refund?

As a side note, I have been disappointed in the performance of the coach, but since this is our first Class A, I was comparing it to my F-350 pulling a 5th wheel and was not sure if that was a fair comparison.
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:05 PM   #2
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I'd call your frame manufacturer. They will have the specs on just exactly what was in stalled in the frame/engine of the coach. On my 2002 there is a badge, on the engine that says ISB. I called them on this, as it was sold to me as an ISC and it is an ISC, no matter what is on the badge. I'm not an expert in when engines were changed out to different models, but I'd be surprised if you had an ISB in a 2001 Newmar...
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:09 PM   #3
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No Ventana 3973 listed in the 2011 brochure but that's not unusual, same thing happened with our '02 DSDP 4090. Not listed when we placed our order on April 15th 2002.
The 2011 Ventana brochure lists two engines, one for the 34-39' units and the another for the 43' units. BUT it appears they have them reversed as they list the 350 HP ISC for the 34-39' units and the 360 HP ISB for the 43' units.
I can see no earthly reason to use the lower torque ISB on the 43'.
There was no option shown to get the ISC on the 34-39' units either but I don't have the factory option sheet either.
Seems like whoever wrote the Newmar brochure made some mistakes!
Call Newmar with the vin and get the real scoop.
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:12 PM   #4
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2011 Newmar Ventana 3973SE Diesel Pusher Motorhome

Their ad says it's a 350 hp ISB

If you don't have it in writing that you bought something else....

NADA doesn't even list a Ventana 3973 in 2011
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:16 PM   #5
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Forgot to add, I did exchange e-mail with Spartan Customer Service, who built the chassis, and they confirmed they installed an ISB engine in my VIN number chassis. I wish I had known enough to e-mail them prior to purchasing.
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Newmar Dealer sold us a 2011 Ventana model 3973 a year ago and assured me it had the 8.3 Cummins ISC engine. This is our first diesel pusher and I was concerned that is was not the ISC, but after being shown a work order that said it was the 8.3 Cummins (ISC), we purchased the coach. Now one year later, I had the coach serviced and the technician informed me it is the 6.7 ISB engine. Having "paid" for the ISC, we are trying to work out the issue with the dealer that sold us the coach. During our negotiations the salesman told me, in writing, that the ISC engine added $10,000 to the value of the coach. Is this a true statement and should I expect a $10,000 refund?

As a side note, I have been disappointed in the performance of the coach, but since this is our first Class A, I was comparing it to my F-350 pulling a 5th wheel and was not sure if that was a fair comparison.
well that sucks but now you know why you have such poor power for sure
Personally I think the ISC is worth at least 10K.
I would not even buy a DPMH that had the sad 6.7 power
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJOL View Post
I'd call your frame manufacturer. They will have the specs on just exactly what was in stalled in the frame/engine of the coach. On my 2002 there is a badge, on the engine that says ISB. I called them on this, as it was sold to me as an ISC and it is an ISC, no matter what is on the badge. I'm not an expert in when engines were changed out to different models, but I'd be surprised if you had an ISB in a 2001 Newmar...
When did you buy your DSDP? We traded in our '02 DSDP 4090 in Feb of '15 and I wonder where it went.
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Old 01-18-2017, 03:27 PM   #8
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I would not even buy a DPMH that had the sad 6.7 power
Having one of those 6.7ISBs, I say more for us. There is nothing sad about that engine.

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Old 01-18-2017, 04:24 PM   #9
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Having one of those 6.7ISBs, I say more for us. There is nothing sad about that engine.

John
once u drove the same weight and size unit with a ISC or better yet a ISL
you would fully understand the context of my opinion
I have a 40ft with the isl and really can not believe they would produce something this big and heavy with a pickup engine
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Old 01-18-2017, 04:35 PM   #10
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Select 55, although more power is always good I'm very happy with my 360 hp isb. And it's great even with my toad. I can't tell that I have a car behind me.

Curious what 40 footer you're driving with an isl?????
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Old 01-18-2017, 05:04 PM   #11
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Select 55, although more power is always good I'm very happy with my 360 hp isb. And it's great even with my toad. I can't tell that I have a car behind me.

Curious what 40 footer you're driving with an isl?????

40'ers with an ISL are not uncommon. Lots of Monaco's, Country Coaches, Alpines and Newmars built through 2000-2008 had ISLs. My coach is 40' and has a tag axle and an ISM.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
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When did you buy your DSDP? We traded in our '02 DSDP 4090 in Feb of '15 and I wonder where it went.

Bought it in July 16. It had just over 70K on it and it has performed well, so far. Still not sure of the ISB/ISC business. I thought the ISC was the follow on to the ISB, but I guess that isn't correct, in all cases...


Forgot to say that it came out of Colorado, and I've talked to the previous owner...
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:39 PM   #13
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These days there are very few "large block" DPs being built, and hardly any that are affordable unless you are looking to spend >$500k.

As the owner of a 40' 34,000-pound MH powered by a 12 liter engine, I don't think it's possible to explain to owners of coaches powered by small-block engines like the ISB what it is like to have one with torque >1200-1600 ft lbs.

The trouble with discussions like this is that people react very defensively and argue strenuously that what they own is fine for them. I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise; what you have no doubt is working fine for you and I'm glad.

But there is a big difference between 350-400HP delivered by an engine with torque in the ~800-900 ft-lb range and the same HP delivered by a large block diesel with >50% more torque. HP is what gets you up a hill and both engines will climb the same hill at roughly the same speed (albeit that one engine is probably turning a lot faster than the other). However, torque is what "gets you off the line" and the large-block diesel simply moves out in a manner more akin to a car than a motorhome. I know, because that's exactly how mine drives.

It's not to say that anyone "needs" to have this much torque, but IMO it does make driving more relaxing and pleasurable. I can merge onto a freeway in much less space than most other drivers expect.

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Old 01-18-2017, 07:43 PM   #14
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While the ISB is a good engine, I had the larger ISC, ISL, etc on my must have list for our current coach. Given your purchase circumstances I would be upset and want money back. At least $10k. I would probably push for $20k and settle on something less.
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