|
|
01-18-2017, 02:00 PM
|
#1
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 12
|
Value of Cummins ISC versus ISB
Newmar Dealer sold us a 2011 Ventana model 3973 a year ago and assured me it had the 8.3 Cummins ISC engine. This is our first diesel pusher and I was concerned that is was not the ISC, but after being shown a work order that said it was the 8.3 Cummins (ISC), we purchased the coach. Now one year later, I had the coach serviced and the technician informed me it is the 6.7 ISB engine. Having "paid" for the ISC, we are trying to work out the issue with the dealer that sold us the coach. During our negotiations the salesman told me, in writing, that the ISC engine added $10,000 to the value of the coach. Is this a true statement and should I expect a $10,000 refund?
As a side note, I have been disappointed in the performance of the coach, but since this is our first Class A, I was comparing it to my F-350 pulling a 5th wheel and was not sure if that was a fair comparison.
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
01-18-2017, 02:05 PM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
Forest River Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Posts: 581
|
I'd call your frame manufacturer. They will have the specs on just exactly what was in stalled in the frame/engine of the coach. On my 2002 there is a badge, on the engine that says ISB. I called them on this, as it was sold to me as an ISC and it is an ISC, no matter what is on the badge. I'm not an expert in when engines were changed out to different models, but I'd be surprised if you had an ISB in a 2001 Newmar...
__________________
2012 Coachmen Sportscoach RD385DS, Freightliner Chassis, Cummins 340HP ISB Turbo Diesel
2007 Saturn Ion 3 Toad
|
|
|
01-18-2017, 02:09 PM
|
#3
|
Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
|
No Ventana 3973 listed in the 2011 brochure but that's not unusual, same thing happened with our '02 DSDP 4090. Not listed when we placed our order on April 15th 2002.
The 2011 Ventana brochure lists two engines, one for the 34-39' units and the another for the 43' units. BUT it appears they have them reversed as they list the 350 HP ISC for the 34-39' units and the 360 HP ISB for the 43' units.
I can see no earthly reason to use the lower torque ISB on the 43'.
There was no option shown to get the ISC on the 34-39' units either but I don't have the factory option sheet either.
Seems like whoever wrote the Newmar brochure made some mistakes!
Call Newmar with the vin and get the real scoop.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
|
|
|
01-18-2017, 02:12 PM
|
#4
|
Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vail, Arizona
Posts: 2,057
|
2011 Newmar Ventana 3973SE Diesel Pusher Motorhome
Their ad says it's a 350 hp ISB
If you don't have it in writing that you bought something else....
NADA doesn't even list a Ventana 3973 in 2011
__________________
Bill & Chris Bélanger (KI1Z)
'04 Georgetown XL > '17 4018 DSDP FL > '18 DSDP 4327 K2> ‘21 LA 4551 K3
2018 JL Wrangler Rubicon 2 Door
|
|
|
01-18-2017, 02:16 PM
|
#5
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 12
|
Forgot to add, I did exchange e-mail with Spartan Customer Service, who built the chassis, and they confirmed they installed an ISB engine in my VIN number chassis. I wish I had known enough to e-mail them prior to purchasing.
|
|
|
01-18-2017, 02:19 PM
|
#6
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: indio california
Posts: 963
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC5ERO
Newmar Dealer sold us a 2011 Ventana model 3973 a year ago and assured me it had the 8.3 Cummins ISC engine. This is our first diesel pusher and I was concerned that is was not the ISC, but after being shown a work order that said it was the 8.3 Cummins (ISC), we purchased the coach. Now one year later, I had the coach serviced and the technician informed me it is the 6.7 ISB engine. Having "paid" for the ISC, we are trying to work out the issue with the dealer that sold us the coach. During our negotiations the salesman told me, in writing, that the ISC engine added $10,000 to the value of the coach. Is this a true statement and should I expect a $10,000 refund?
As a side note, I have been disappointed in the performance of the coach, but since this is our first Class A, I was comparing it to my F-350 pulling a 5th wheel and was not sure if that was a fair comparison.
|
well that sucks but now you know why you have such poor power for sure
Personally I think the ISC is worth at least 10K.
I would not even buy a DPMH that had the sad 6.7 power
|
|
|
01-18-2017, 02:20 PM
|
#7
|
Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJOL
I'd call your frame manufacturer. They will have the specs on just exactly what was in stalled in the frame/engine of the coach. On my 2002 there is a badge, on the engine that says ISB. I called them on this, as it was sold to me as an ISC and it is an ISC, no matter what is on the badge. I'm not an expert in when engines were changed out to different models, but I'd be surprised if you had an ISB in a 2001 Newmar...
|
When did you buy your DSDP? We traded in our '02 DSDP 4090 in Feb of '15 and I wonder where it went.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
|
|
|
01-18-2017, 03:27 PM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 578
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by select55
I would not even buy a DPMH that had the sad 6.7 power
|
Having one of those 6.7ISBs, I say more for us. There is nothing sad about that engine.
John
__________________
2016 Ventana LE 4040
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport
BlueOx BP w NSA ReadyBrute
|
|
|
01-18-2017, 04:24 PM
|
#9
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: indio california
Posts: 963
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotspike
Having one of those 6.7ISBs, I say more for us. There is nothing sad about that engine.
John
|
once u drove the same weight and size unit with a ISC or better yet a ISL
you would fully understand the context of my opinion
I have a 40ft with the isl and really can not believe they would produce something this big and heavy with a pickup engine
|
|
|
01-18-2017, 04:35 PM
|
#10
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tarpon Springs, Fl.
Posts: 1,540
|
Select 55, although more power is always good I'm very happy with my 360 hp isb. And it's great even with my toad. I can't tell that I have a car behind me.
Curious what 40 footer you're driving with an isl?????
__________________
2013 Newmar Ventana 3434 (sold)
2018 Wrangler JLU Rubicon (sold)
|
|
|
01-18-2017, 05:04 PM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,587
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by lass
Select 55, although more power is always good I'm very happy with my 360 hp isb. And it's great even with my toad. I can't tell that I have a car behind me.
Curious what 40 footer you're driving with an isl?????
|
40'ers with an ISL are not uncommon. Lots of Monaco's, Country Coaches, Alpines and Newmars built through 2000-2008 had ISLs. My coach is 40' and has a tag axle and an ISM.
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
|
|
|
01-18-2017, 07:21 PM
|
#12
|
Senior Member
Forest River Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Posts: 581
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D
When did you buy your DSDP? We traded in our '02 DSDP 4090 in Feb of '15 and I wonder where it went.
|
Bought it in July 16. It had just over 70K on it and it has performed well, so far. Still not sure of the ISB/ISC business. I thought the ISC was the follow on to the ISB, but I guess that isn't correct, in all cases...
Forgot to say that it came out of Colorado, and I've talked to the previous owner...
__________________
2012 Coachmen Sportscoach RD385DS, Freightliner Chassis, Cummins 340HP ISB Turbo Diesel
2007 Saturn Ion 3 Toad
|
|
|
01-18-2017, 07:39 PM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
Official iRV2 Sponsor
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,305
|
These days there are very few "large block" DPs being built, and hardly any that are affordable unless you are looking to spend >$500k.
As the owner of a 40' 34,000-pound MH powered by a 12 liter engine, I don't think it's possible to explain to owners of coaches powered by small-block engines like the ISB what it is like to have one with torque >1200-1600 ft lbs.
The trouble with discussions like this is that people react very defensively and argue strenuously that what they own is fine for them. I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise; what you have no doubt is working fine for you and I'm glad.
But there is a big difference between 350-400HP delivered by an engine with torque in the ~800-900 ft-lb range and the same HP delivered by a large block diesel with >50% more torque. HP is what gets you up a hill and both engines will climb the same hill at roughly the same speed (albeit that one engine is probably turning a lot faster than the other). However, torque is what "gets you off the line" and the large-block diesel simply moves out in a manner more akin to a car than a motorhome. I know, because that's exactly how mine drives.
It's not to say that anyone "needs" to have this much torque, but IMO it does make driving more relaxing and pleasurable. I can merge onto a freeway in much less space than most other drivers expect.
Joel (AKA docj)
__________________
Joel (AKA docj)--
RV Technology Specialist
|
|
|
01-18-2017, 07:43 PM
|
#14
|
Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 15,749
|
While the ISB is a good engine, I had the larger ISC, ISL, etc on my must have list for our current coach. Given your purchase circumstances I would be upset and want money back. At least $10k. I would probably push for $20k and settle on something less.
__________________
Vince and Susan
2011 Tiffin Phaeton 40QTH (Cummins ISC/Freightliner)
Flat towing a modified 2005 Jeep (Rubicon Wrangler)
Previously a 2002 Fleetwood Pace Arrow 37A and a 1995 Safari Trek 2830.
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|