Ventana vs. Dutch Star - Advice Needed

[Gordon Dewald]

The Ventana our friends have seems a bit feature poor but still an overall very nice coach. Probably a better bang for the buck.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by NealC

And I actually prefer a rear radiator! I want the storage thank you. I know people want side radiator for maintenance but I'm not doing any of it myself.

But here's the struggle (aka realization) I have with all Newmar DP's. If you were blindfolded and taken to any of the coaches and seated at the dinette, would you be able to tell the difference? (Other than carpet/no carpet of course, and in some cases people may prefer carpet.) I do not see paying over $200K more for a MADP when inside they are all essentially the same to me.

I'm going to go with a Ventana, because this being only my second coach, I can't justify the DS.

But, there are features in the DS I would like to have like all tile, heated floor, sanicon system, motorized window awnings, multiplex wiring/lighting (I'm actually torn on liking this), etc.

There are things I would like on some of the more expensive coaches, like bigger black/gray tanks.

That's why my response to the OP was that if he could afford/justify the cost of the DS, it does have some nice features and options that aren't on the Ventana. If s/he could care less about those options, then the Ventana is a really nice coach, which is while I'll be placing an order for a '19 as soon as Newmar is taking them.

[deaton]

I have friends with both Ventana’s and Dutch Star’s and I don’t know anybody who is unhappy with there choice. The 400 HP ISL in the Vantana is an excellent engine. I drove one for nine years in a Monaco. It will take you anywhere you want to go.

The DS has a few more bells and whistles, and I bought one just to have a change from my last coach. The one thing I especially like is the “more floor”, but both models have the comfort Drive and escape door that are also high on my like list.

[NealC]

I love the Spartan vs. Freightliner discussion because there is typically no merit, just emotion/opinion. The facts as I know it as a very happy FL chassis user/owner:

One of the most difficult, frustrating, concerning, and important things we have to deal with in our MH's is maneuvering through campgrounds, spots, gas stations. It is a fact the FL has a better turning radius than SP with it's ultra steer. I just had a tight situation at a campground which not only reaffirmed 40ft is big enough, if not too big, and every bit of maneuverability is critical. I don't want to be driving in a stiff 2 by 4 that can't turn when I'd rather have something better fit and better to actually drive in conditions we have to experience.

I also know that FL is a larger company, more service centers, and the customer service I've received thus far has been amazing! I email in a concern as a new RV'er and they CALL me back and educate me. I'm impressed and very satisfied.

I hate to see people trying to figure out what's what and there are really no facts behind the opinions repeated on this forum. All potential buyers get is confusion.

[C.Martin]

I went to Gaffney for a couple of Field Service Campaigns...while the coach was in the hangar...we drove over to the factory to see the line. Freightliner Custom Chassis in Gaffney has three different lines going...fed by a fourth that preps engines. The lines are UPS type trucks...School Buses...and Motorcoach Chassis. The Motorcoach line puts out around 27 frames a day. They are really highly trained assemblers. Just about every component is built somewhere else...they just construct a custom frame from all the components. It’s the most organized chaos I’ve ever seen. They have done a really great job of minimizing workers having to walk very far...Parts are right at thier fingertips, and the line is very well planned out.

I was super impressed with the service center at Gaffney. Having six bays capable of lifting the coaches six feet in the air is impressive. They keep a nice stock of parts there as well.

They restored my faith in Freightliner, although the Spartan Chassis looked pretty nice at the Tampa Show.

I have done my own service, and don’t mind laying down on the job. It’s only a few days once a year....and I get to use the two storage bays all through the year.

[Stuart W]

Originally Posted by Stuart W

They are both excellent motorhomes. I looked hard at both, going through the option build sheets, what I found was that when I added a lot of the items that are included on the base DS it was a lot of money, to list a few items , chrome mirrors, Fiberglass roof, R12 roof insulation, power cord real, water hose real, closing the gap to 80k difference.
On my want list, side radiator, no carpet floor, 3 ACs were big items not available on the V. As others have said, get what your comfortable paying for, they are both great Newmars. Stuart

Neal C please note that I took the high road on the FL vs S. [emoji4]

[NealC]

Originally Posted by C.Martin

They restored my faith in Freightliner, although the Spartan Chassis looked pretty nice at the Tampa Show.

What does "looked pretty nice" mean regarding a chassis? How do you factually compare the two?

[NealC]

Originally Posted by Stuart W

Neil please note that I took the high road on the V vs S. [emoji4]

I paid you hush money with Spartan pajamas with footies.

[Stuart W]

Originally Posted by NealC

I paid you hush money with Spartan pajamas with footies.

🤫.......

[joes2901]

Mackeys, I was thinking about a 2018 37' Ventana 3715 because it has a 74" sofa that makes into a queen bed directly across from an 87" sofa that could be 2 recliners with a cabinet between them that could house a Supermicro mini tower (16 drives) for reviewing the days photos or video editing. Plus, a wonderful galley with space for food prep and rolling out dough and pie crusts. In addition, it has a rectangular shower, instead of the tiny 36" corner shower, that could be 40x32 and the bath plumbing appear to be located over the holding tank so no macinator junk needed which saves water when boondocking. Finally, it has a rear wall for closet and washer, but a queen instead of a king bed. If the Ventana 3715 floorplan was in a 37' Dutch Star the decision would be easy. But it is not so I could tollerate the ISB and its exhaust brake. They both can tow 10K pounds so an 2018 F250 diesel 4x4 King Ranch would not overload them. I am planing to put a roll out rack in the truck bed to handle nearly 2,000 pounds of chuck wagon and cooking gear in the F250. The RV, tow bar and toad would total less than 65' so I could drive I-8 by Glamis without a CHP and vehicle length concern.

I thought I wanted a 2016-17 Dutch Star 4041 but the 36" corner shower is a deal killer. I boondock instead of go to RV Resorts. So the choice of propane or all electric is not made up yet. The Ventana or Dutch Star will have 8 Lifeline L-16s for 1,600 AH and 2 inverters to produce 240 volts and 250 amps to recharge the battery bank. In addition, 2KW of solar panels are also considered essential for comfortable boondocking.

I began my chassis research by examining the Freightliner chassis specs and was shocked to see that the 37' Ventana had skinny high inflation pressure tires on skinny 8.25" wheels, a whimpy 13.3K front axle capability, and inferior 7" rear brake drums compared to the New Aire and 37' Dutch Star whose specs showed only 1,300 and 1,900 more gross weight and front axle capability. They had 305 lower pressure tires and 9" wheels, and 8.62" rear brake drums. I wonder if Newmar intentionally skimped on safety on the Ventana when it gets a wimpy front axle, an inferior tire patch on the road with the skinny tires and wheels and weaker breaking with the smaller rear brake drums.

They certainly are not building what the customer wants because this info has killed my interest in a 2018 Ventana 3715 that I could afford to write a check for. I hate payments that inflate the cost of the RV or any depreciating toys. I will be watching to see if this safety problem, as I see it, is corrected by the 2019 Ventana.

[C.Martin]

Originally Posted by NealC

What does "looked pretty nice" mean regarding a chassis? How do you factually compare the two?

I did not get a micrometer out...but in theory, Spartan uses a heavier gauge of steel in the frame rails. I also like how they organized the wiring looms and air lines. Nice and neatly stacked. I know it doesn’t make any difference in function...but it makes the anal compulsive types say, “Ahhhh”.

Freightliner does thier wiring and air lines to Newmars specifications. Newmar wants a couple of plastic raceways...other manufacturers have velcroed closured sleeves...(which Freightliner workers called “ziplock bags”)...other’s have no protection surrounding the bundles as they run the length of the frame.

Having a Freightliner Custom Chassis is said to be both good and bad. The good is,,, the customer can get it exactly like they want...and the bad is ,,,the customer can get it exactly like they want.

Not having owned a Spartan I don’t know what thier web support looks like. I like having the resources available thru DTNA. Parts Pro, and EZ Wiring are cool tools. Of course the owners of a Cummins and Onan can equally register for thier support sites...with online manuals, etc... also a great resource.

All in all they are very much alike...both assembled by highly trained and skilled individuals with similar if not identical components.

I’m having a great time learning my Chassis...and trying to take great care of it. Doubt seriously I would ever want to relearn it all with another Chassis. But, I won’t go so far as to say Never.

[RKins]

Originally Posted by NealC

But here's the struggle (aka realization) I have with all Newmar DP's. If you were blindfolded and taken to any of the coaches and seated at the dinette, would you be able to tell the difference? (Other than carpet/no carpet of course, and in some cases people may prefer carpet.) I do not see paying over $200K more for a MADP when inside they are all essentially the same to me.

We looked at so many coaches (all brands) at the Tampa RV Show that we came away with the same opinion. Sure, you can see different floor and wall treatments and different sinks but overall there is only so much you can do with the interior space.
The first day I walked the show with my sister and BIL looking at Fifth Wheels - we looked at so many we came away with exactly the same opinion of similarity (and we looked through so many that I NEVER want to see another 5th wheel again ;-) )

[NealC]

You can change floor, wall, sink, etc. in any of the Newmar DP's. Make any of them look the way you want which is a great thing with Newmar - the customizations (aka specials).

It's called marketing; making someone pay more for something they believe is different.

[willipaul]

Originally Posted by NealC

It's called marketing; making someone pay more for something they believe is different.

what is it called when they indeed are different ?