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Old 07-31-2019, 01:19 PM   #15
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We carry a plug-in heated (blue) water supply hose. If the temps are going to be below freezing and staying there we utilize that instead of running the hose reel feed out. In that situation I would place my Watts in between the heated hose coming into the bay and my hose reel feed.

Just personal preference. There is a zero chance of leaving a regulator at a campsite when you move on if it is mounted inside your wet bay. I'm getting ready to venture into my late 60's so I may have to start modifying!
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Old 07-31-2019, 01:25 PM   #16
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I've been running this whole pressure increase due to the sun heating the hose (thermal expansion) thing through my mind, and it doesn't make sense. Here's why.

Let's assume that the water pressure at the park post is 50 psi. We connect a 20' hose to the faucet and open it to supply water to the coach. At the other end of the hose, we have a pressure regulator (set at 60 psi) that also shows 50 psi input pressure (matching the park post pressure). All water taps in the coach are shut off, so standing pressure in the system is also 50 psi.

Now, lets say the sun heats the water in the 20' hose by 60 degrees, causing thermal expansion. In a sealed space, the pressure would increase significantly. In general, thermal expansion below the boiling point of water is known to be approximately 10%.

However, in a space that is only sealed at one end (such as an RV water connection), the pressure increase will simply overcome the input pressure (in this case, 50 psi) and dissipate. In such an open system, it would be unlikely that we could even measure the overall system pressure increase.

So, if an increase from a normal pressure in an unsealed system (again, lets assume 50 psi) to 100 psi is observed, it would not be from thermal expansion. The overall system pressure (park water supply) would have to increase in order for such a change to occur.

If I have missed something here, please let me know.

TJ
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Old 07-31-2019, 01:39 PM   #17
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Yes, you've been lucky! There aren't many, but there are RV Parks with 100 psi, 110 psi. -- all the time -- at their faucets.

There's one in Flagstaff, AZ that warns you when you check in and they'll give you a loaner regulator if you don't have one.

I think it was the last time we were there (winter as I recall -- snow on the ground) and the coach next to us blew out his plumbing in the middle of the night.

All the next day they were carrying out dripping stuff -- including bedding. I felt so sorry for them. But they'd been warned.

I think I've stayed in three RV Parks now with pressure over 80 psi.
I never made it to the Southwest, good thing I didn't, why don't the campgrounds regulate there water lines as city's do at around 50-60 psi, well any how your safe and I can't camp anymore so I guess I'am safe.
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Old 07-31-2019, 01:44 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Tranquil Jim View Post
I've been running this whole pressure increase due to the sun heating the hose (thermal expansion) thing through my mind, and it doesn't make sense. Here's why.

Let's assume that the water pressure at the park post is 50 psi. We connect a 20' hose to the faucet and open it to supply water to the coach. At the other end of the hose, we have a pressure regulator (set at 60 psi) that also shows 50 psi input pressure (matching the park post pressure). All water taps in the coach are shut off, so standing pressure in the system is also 50 psi.

Now, lets say the sun heats the water in the 20' hose by 60 degrees, causing thermal expansion. In a sealed space, the pressure would increase significantly. In general, thermal expansion below the boiling point of water is known to be approximately 10%.

However, in a space that is only sealed at one end (such as an RV water connection), the pressure increase will simply overcome the input pressure (in this case, 50 psi) and dissipate. In such an open system, it would be unlikely that we could even measure the overall system pressure increase.

So, if an increase from a normal pressure in an unsealed system (again, lets assume 50 psi) to 100 psi is observed, it would not be from thermal expansion. The overall system pressure (park water supply) would have to increase in order for such a change to occur.

If I have missed something here, please let me know.

TJ
I would agree with you if I hadn't seen it myself, however you are talking about a localized increase in static pressure, not dynamic. Because of the fact that it is static pressure, it is more difficult for that to dissipate due to things such as check-valves. Just my 2 cents
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Old 07-31-2019, 03:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranquil Jim View Post
I've been running this whole pressure increase due to the sun heating the hose (thermal expansion) thing through my mind, and it doesn't make sense. Here's why.



Let's assume that the water pressure at the park post is 50 psi. We connect a 20' hose to the faucet and open it to supply water to the coach. At the other end of the hose, we have a pressure regulator (set at 60 psi) that also shows 50 psi input pressure (matching the park post pressure). All water taps in the coach are shut off, so standing pressure in the system is also 50 psi.



Now, lets say the sun heats the water in the 20' hose by 60 degrees, causing thermal expansion. In a sealed space, the pressure would increase significantly. In general, thermal expansion below the boiling point of water is known to be approximately 10%.



However, in a space that is only sealed at one end (such as an RV water connection), the pressure increase will simply overcome the input pressure (in this case, 50 psi) and dissipate. In such an open system, it would be unlikely that we could even measure the overall system pressure increase.



So, if an increase from a normal pressure in an unsealed system (again, lets assume 50 psi) to 100 psi is observed, it would not be from thermal expansion. The overall system pressure (park water supply) would have to increase in order for such a change to occur.



If I have missed something here, please let me know.



TJ


I guess I should have taken pictures. Here is a bit more info. The supply at the faucet is 65psi. It is regulated from the main. I know this because itís my house. At the hose bib that supplies the coach there is a anti backflow device thus preventing any pressure relief.

When I get back home,I will try to duplicate the situation.
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Old 07-31-2019, 04:15 PM   #20
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I guess I should have taken pictures. Here is a bit more info. The supply at the faucet is 65psi. It is regulated from the main. I know this because itís my house. At the hose bib that supplies the coach there is a anti backflow device thus preventing any pressure relief.

When I get back home,I will try to duplicate the situation.
Okay...now it is beginning to make sense. If the system is sealed at both ends, then there is no dissipation factor. That wrinkle wasn't clear to me when I made my analysis.

And, given that you are starting with a 65 psi source, I guess it is possible to see a 35# pressure increase in a closed system.

That said, I still don't like the concept of relying on a pressure rating for a hose. In your situation, I'm a "belt and suspenders" guy; inexpensive (but reliable) pressure regulator at the source protecting the hose and a water-bay-mounted regulator and gauge.

TJ
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Old 07-31-2019, 05:36 PM   #21
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We put the regulator in the wet bay to prevent us from leaving it behind when we leave.



In thinking about it, our thought was that the pressure needs to be regulated at the time it enters the coach, which can fluctuate between the source and the coach via the hose. So it was an unexpected benefit for us.


Who knew? We were accidentally smarter than we thought
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:33 PM   #22
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My regulator is permanently mounted in the wet bay for a couple of reasonably simple reasons (since Iím a simple minded guy).
1. My main concern is to protect the coach, not so much the hose going to the park supply. Much like my s&b home, the regulator is located where the water enters the home not at the street meter even though Iím responsible for the line in between.
2. Iím lazy and forgetful so I donít want to hook up anything more than the hose to the supply. Iíve left more than one tee at campgrounds.
3. I like simple.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:17 PM   #23
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Quote:
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For convenience I mounted my Watts regulator in the wet bay after the hose reel. Pressure gauges on the incoming and after the regulator. The hose on the retracting reel is rated at 150psi.


I realize that some feel it should be mounted at the park source (faucet).


Today had an interesting observation. The water hose has a 20 foot run to the faucet and it's hot where I am. I was moving some stuff around and opened the wet bay door. Normal incoming pressure is about 65psi. I was surprised to see the incoming pressure at 120 psi. The solar radiation heated the hose to increase the pressure. The regulator was doing it job with 55 going into the coach plumbing.



For me, that confirms my location is the correct place.
Thank you for sharing this information! I had never thought of that before. I always put it out in the sun right on the beginning of the hose. The other 20 feet continues to build pressure due to heated expanding water. Thanks again.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:31 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Tranquil Jim View Post
Okay...now it is beginning to make sense. If the system is sealed at both ends, then there is no dissipation factor. That wrinkle wasn't clear to me when I made my analysis.

And, given that you are starting with a 65 psi source, I guess it is possible to see a 35# pressure increase in a closed system.

That said, I still don't like the concept of relying on a pressure rating for a hose. In your situation, I'm a "belt and suspenders" guy; inexpensive (but reliable) pressure regulator at the source protecting the hose and a water-bay-mounted regulator and gauge.

TJ
To take this a step further, even if the increase was due to it being a closed system, water shut off at both ends, so trapped in the hose, that means that the location of the regulators would have no bearing, because whether you put the regulator before or after the hose, the hose would still see a pressure increase. That is, until you start the water flowing into the coach, and at that point, the heat would instantly dissipate and so would the pressure.

I don't see any way that thermal expansion can be a factor from the bib to the coach AND be solved by regulator location.
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Old 08-01-2019, 10:36 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Tranquil Jim View Post
Okay...now it is beginning to make sense. If the system is sealed at both ends, then there is no dissipation factor. That wrinkle wasn't clear to me when I made my analysis.

And, given that you are starting with a 65 psi source, I guess it is possible to see a 35# pressure increase in a closed system.

That said, I still don't like the concept of relying on a pressure rating for a hose. In your situation, I'm a "belt and suspenders" guy; inexpensive (but reliable) pressure regulator at the source protecting the hose and a water-bay-mounted regulator and gauge.

TJ
I agree with Jim.

Like I said before, it is personal preference. I will always screw my Watts into the parks outlet, then attach my supply hose to it. There is a park district CG back in central Illinois we use each summer where the water pressure has been know to spike at 100psi or more. I wouldn't want to come back to my site and see a split hose flying around throwing water all over everything.

Really about the only benefit of mounting it inside the wet bay is you won't leave it at a vacated camp site by mistake.
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:08 PM   #26
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There is a park district CG back in central Illinois we use each summer where the water pressure has been know to spike at 100psi or more. I wouldn't want to come back to my site and see a split hose flying around throwing water all over everything.
Turn your water off at the spigot, prior to leaving, and you wonít have this issue. It will also limit the possibility of a leak within the coach while your gone!
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Old 08-01-2019, 03:45 PM   #27
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Turn your water off at the spigot, prior to leaving, and you wonít have this issue. It will also limit the possibility of a leak within the coach while your gone!
Not a bad idea! However, I'd probably forget to do that more than I would forget to remove the pressure regulator when I disconnect to leave a site.

TJ
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Old 08-01-2019, 03:56 PM   #28
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Really about the only benefit of mounting it inside the wet bay is you won't leave it at a vacated camp site by mistake.
Or, to make it more difficult for someone to steal.

Or, to keep it from freezing in winter conditions.
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