weigh it before you buy it

[Gordon Dewald]

I would question the difference in the Spartan rating and the Newmar rating but not discount the Newmar rating out of hand. Spartan has no idea if Newmar altered the frame during construction.

I see no reason for Newmar to derate the front axle rating just because they can do it, especially if it causes them grief with the total load.

Something certainly does not make sense in the difference however the final manufacturer is the one who determines the final specifications.

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

I would question the difference in the Spartan rating and the Newmar rating but not discount the Newmar rating out of hand. Spartan has no idea if Newmar altered the frame during construction.

I see no reason for Newmar to derate the front axle rating just because they can do it, especially if it causes them grief with the total load.

Something certainly does not make sense in the difference however the final manufacturer is the one who determines the final specifications.

I certainly appreciate your point and I don't tread there lightly. After all, I'm a rule follower by nature.

I've had several discussions with Spartan and Newmar about this. Newmar doesn't modify the chassis. The reason I've been given by Newmar was related to using the same chassis on all floor plans resulting inevitable differences in L & R balance with a safety margin added.

The limiting factor finally boiled down to the selection of 305/70 tires instead of 315/80. The 305s load ratings are just low enough that an imbalanced coach with a fully loaded front axle to exceed an individual tire's weight rating. Certainly you could say this was a marketing decision.

So, as I said before, I know my corner weights and I won't exceed a corner weight that requires more than 115 PSI but given how well I am balanced, I should be able to use the 14,600# and not exceed 112 PSI.

I'm pretty anal about this subject.

BTW...I just re-installed a desk/dinette set, moved a recliner and dog crate. I will be re-weighing in a couple days and adjust as needed. The added weight on the left side could push me up to my 115 PSI max.

[Gordon Dewald]

Seems like you have your game in hand and have thought everything through.

Still makes me wonder what is going on with Spartan and Newmar. We sat for several days in Forest City and watched truck load after truck load of chassis arrive at Winnebago. Every chassis I saw had the tires installed.

The only thing I can consider as applicable is Newmar is ordering the chassis with the smaller tires. Must be just a cost saving item as I can think of no other reason they would do that.

[jrwitt]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

Seems like you have your game in hand and have thought everything through.

Still makes me wonder what is going on with Spartan and Newmar. We sat for several days in Forest City and watched truck load after truck load of chassis arrive at Winnebago. Every chassis I saw had the tires installed.

The only thing I can consider as applicable is Newmar is ordering the chassis with the smaller tires. Must be just a cost saving item as I can think of no other reason they would do that.

Hey Gordon,

Your comment covers something I have always wondered about. How do they deliver the chassis? You mentioned truck load, so I assume they come in on a flatbed truck? Is it one chassis per truck or do they stack them? Don't suppose you took any pics. Anyway, just something I have always been curious about. I assume the chassis already has the engine/transmission installed.

Jack

[newmarpusher]

Originally Posted by newmarpusher

I can't speak for Newmar's design criteria 15-16 years ago, but my 2015 40' TAG Ventana is very much UNDER capacity. So at least in my case, they've improved.

My axle ratings are:

Front 14,000
Drive 20,000
Tag 10,000

Actual weights with full fuel, water, cargo and 2 passengers are:

Front 11,800
Rear 16,400
Tag 7,200

I'd be hard pressed to overload any of my axles.

As I mentioned, my coach is well under capacity on all axles and has more CCC than is really practical.

These were important considerations when we purchased this MH after doing a lot of research and owning one Class C that was severely overloaded new.

I would doubt that any late model 2012-2016 Newmar Class A DP is overloaded when dry but the short TAG 40's are the way to go if you are at all concerned about this.

I also don't think Newmar is being cheap on tires. The tires on all their Class A DP's are wider than most of the competitors.

[Hit_the_Rhod]

Originally Posted by jrwitt

Hey Gordon,

Your comment covers something I have always wondered about. How do they deliver the chassis? You mentioned truck load, so I assume they come in on a flatbed truck? Is it one chassis per truck or do they stack them? Don't suppose you took any pics. Anyway, just something I have always been curious about. I assume the chassis already has the engine/transmission installed.

Jack

Actually, they ride them piggy back on a tractor trailer. The first one has the front axle up over the tow plate of the driving tractor, with the rear wheels on the ground, the 2nd chassis is winched up about 3/4 of the way onto the 1st chassis, with it's rear wheels on the ground, on and on. I think they can get about 4 in one load, with 1 tractor (Semi) pulling for a delivery!

[jrwitt]

Originally Posted by Hit_the_Rhod

Actually, they ride them piggy back on a tractor trailer. The first one has the front axle up over the tow plate of the driving tractor, with the rear wheels on the ground, the 2nd chassis is winched up about 3/4 of the way onto the 1st chassis, with it's rear wheels on the ground, on and on. I think they can get about 4 in one load, with 1 tractor (Semi) pulling for a delivery!

Thanks for the response. I had always wondered how you would move something like that. Always figured they might be delivered by rail rather than by truck. Who knew?

Jack

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by jrwitt

Hey Gordon,

Your comment covers something I have always wondered about. How do they deliver the chassis? You mentioned truck load, so I assume they come in on a flatbed truck? Is it one chassis per truck or do they stack them? Don't suppose you took any pics. Anyway, just something I have always been curious about. I assume the chassis already has the engine/transmission installed.

Jack

Originally Posted by Hit_the_Rhod

Actually, they ride them piggy back on a tractor trailer. The first one has the front axle up over the tow plate of the driving tractor, with the rear wheels on the ground, the 2nd chassis is winched up about 3/4 of the way onto the 1st chassis, with it's rear wheels on the ground, on and on. I think they can get about 4 in one load, with 1 tractor (Semi) pulling for a delivery!

Hi Jack;
Yes the chassis frames were stacked (like dominos) on a lowboy. They had 3 or 4 chassis on each load. Each chassis had motor, radiator, steering wheel, looked like instrument cluster (wrapped), etc.

I did not see any piggy backed going to the WBGO factory but did not see all of the frames being delivered. I have seen many OTR trucks being delivered by piggy backing.

When we took the factory tour they were lined up in a parking lot waiting to be taken to the assembly line. Sorry no pictures.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by newmarpusher

As I mentioned, my coach is well under capacity on all axles and has more CCC than is really practical.

These were important considerations when we purchased this MH after doing a lot of research and owning one Class C that was severely overloaded new.

I would doubt that any late model 2012-2016 Newmar Class A DP is overloaded when dry but the short TAG 40's are the way to go if you are at all concerned about this.

I also don't think Newmar is being cheap on tires. The tires on all their Class A DP's are wider than most of the competitors.

Not suggesting that Newmar is being cheap on tires. However it makes one wonder as they are ordering chassis from the suppliers. That should include options on the tires.

I know when you purchase an OTR truck you specify almost everything from an option list. Frame, transmission, rear ends, axles, engine, etc. It can/should not be much different when a ordering from a chassis manufacturer. I expect they work with the chassis manufacturer to deliver a product that will meet the needs of the coach. Perhaps they sent the accountant to specify the frame because the purchasing agent was sick. LOL

While Newmar is putting wider tires on their units it appears they are not getting a sufficient load rating for some units. I only brought this up as there was a suggestion that the axle derating was due to insufficient tires.

[Scottybdivin]

My 07 MADP has the Reyco Granning IFS 1660 rated at 16600 lbs. Newmar derated it to 16000. The tires 315/80 22.5's are rated up to 18180, so it wasn't the tires in this case. I haven't weighed the corners, but my front axle is at 15800, fully loaded. I run 120 psi in them.

[tbbg II]

My last post to this thread will start the same way the first one started, that is weigh the coach before you buy it.

If your coach is overweight and out of warranty, evidently the only way the manufacturer is liable is if there is an accident.Tragically, an accident with personal injury carries more weight (unintended pun).

In my latest conversation with Newmar Customer Service, I was told I may need to “make some sacrifices” for my coach to be operated safely.

So, if you have a coach under warranty, get the issue addressed while the coverage is valid.That is the only argument the four attorneys I spoke with could offer.If it is out of warranty, take the risk, make some sacrifices or contact the chassis manufacturer to get heavier parts installed.

If you are considering purchasing a new or used coach – caveat emptor.

[cwsqbm]

Weighing a coach before buying is a great idea. The only problem is how would you do this on a custom-ordered coach? Add in factory-delivery, and its a major problem. The best you could do would be to weigh a similar coach before ordering.

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by cwsqbm

Weighing a coach before buying is a great idea. The only problem is how would you do this on a custom-ordered coach? Add in factory-delivery, and its a major problem. The best you could do would be to weigh a similar coach before ordering.

Without throwing this thread into a tangent...

You are totally correct that getting an actual weight on a custom order is not possible BUT...

MH manufacturers don't have an excuse on not providing calculated corner weights. I bet if you give a 6th grader a CAD program and all the details needed they can do it. They could go so far as to adding reasonable estimates for a loaded coach by providing standard weights in each and every loading point both in the basement and overhead in the coach.

It is ridiculous that they play this game where they depend on buyer's ignorance to not catch them with a product that promises a lot and delivers much less.

Of course, buying a used or new unit on a lot allows you to get it weighed. HOWEVER...for those less familiar with this issue, don't let CCC fool you. We started with over 9700# of CCC on our coach and once loaded for full time use we almost maxed out the front axle with 4000# of fuel, water and stuff. That is less than half the CCC in use. Draw your own conclusion if you buy a coach with only 4000# of CCC. (I.E. 2016 DSDP 4369)