What happens when you don't notice that a breaker has tripped...

[FlyingDiver]

Been a crazy couple of days. We managed to kill the coach batteries. So nothing was working, no lights, no fans, no heat/AC, not even the toilet. Not good.

Looked around for batteries yesterday morning, and the Newmar factory in Indiana had enough in stock (we needed 8). So we drove 260 miles yesterday in the Jeep, stayed overnight in a hotel, picked them up, then drove back. We couldn't take the RV because pulling the slides in requires 12v power.

Then I got to spend a couple hours swapping them out. No fun - they're 60 lbs each. And making sure they're all connected properly was nerve wracking. But it's all done and everything is working.

What caused it? The original culprit was probably our propane cooktop. When it started acting up, we used a countertop induction burner (1800w). But, the only outlets in the coach go through the inverter. So we overloaded the breaker feeding the inverter and it tripped, which we didn't know because the inverter kicked in and everything kept running. Except it was draining the battery bank, which was not getting charged (tripped breaker). Do that a few times and you run the batteries down so far they won't take a charge anymore.

We still do use the induction burner, because it's SO much faster than the wimpy propane burners. But we don't run it and the microwave/convection at the same time anymore. I really need to figure out a way to get an additional non-inverter outlet circuit run to the kitchen area. Or (ideally) replace the propane cooktop with an induction one that's not wired through the inverter. We don't boondock that much, and we can run the generator to make dinner if we need to.

Any recommendations on a shop to add the 240v circuit for an induction cooktop and run it to the kitchen? I'd probably go to Gene Miller for the modifications to the counter to install a different cooktop.

You don't want to know what 8 6v deep cycle AGM batteries cost. :(

joe

[Mr_D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingDiver You don't want to know what 8 6v deep cycle AGM batteries cost. :( joe

We looked at a 2011 Essex at the NW Region rally a couple weeks ago, it had the 8 AGM option and it wasn't cheap!! Seemed to be about $400 each.
That Essex was a beauty!! But I couldn't get my wife to sell one of our IRA's to buy it. Will go tomorrow and look at some others after the Farmers Market trip.

[CorporateMonkey]

I don't know of a shop that could at a 240v circuit, but here is an idea. I have been working on this myself for a while.
In my case their are multiple outlets used for the refrigerator, only one set is on the inverter.
I always assumed your King Aire was all electric.

My folks MADP is not, I have come up with a logical solution to the cooktop issue. Add two single hob drop in Cooktek 120v induction hobs. They are US made, and extremely well constructed. Commercial Induction Cooktops, Induction Cookers | CookTek

You can purchase them from the Induction Site for ~$800 each. The Induction Site: Cooktek Induction Hobs
I would look at the 1500w version verses the 120v 1800w version.

I haven't done the project yet, but it is on the list. When I get around to this, I plan on removing the OEM gas cook top and then having a cover plate created to cover the space with two built in hobs. This way the OEM corian cover will still lower giving it at factory appearance.

Adding a 240v cooktop would be a pain as you have to deal with running fresh lines into the slide area. Running any new lines into the non-drop (flat floor) slide out is a huge hassle.

Hope this helps.

[FlyingDiver]

CM - in our rig, there are NO outlets in the kitchen that don't go through the inverter sub-panel, fridge or otherwise. I could possibly move an outlet circuit from the inverter sub-panel to the main or other sub-panel, but none of them have enough capacity to run two induction burners simultaneously. Two of the 1500w burners would take 25 amp if run at the same time. I'm pretty sure you don't have a 25amp circuit to use. I sure don't - my biggest is 20 amp.

Yes, I know it would be a pain to run the new line into the slide. But not impossible, the builders do it all the time. Heck, Newmar service ran 3 new coax lines into my main LR slide during the factory PDI (production left them out by mistake).

joe

[mrschwarz]

If it's 240 volts, you may have a problem with the generator. I haven't measured it myself, but I am told that the generator has two legs, but they are both the same polarity. When you measure across the two legs, you don't get 240 volts. You don't get anything.

I don't suppose it matters since you were able to run it from an existing outlet.

When I needed to run a bunch of electric heaters for an especially bad freeze this year, what I did was trip the breaker for the inverter and find an outlet that still worked. I have a couple in my coach.

[FlyingDiver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrschwarz If it's 240 volts, you may have a problem with the generator. I haven't measured it myself, but I am told that the generator has two legs, but they are both the same polarity. When you measure across the two legs, you don't get 240 volts. You don't get anything.

Not in my coach, it's true 240v. We have a 240v dryer.

Quote:

When I needed to run a bunch of electric heaters for an especially bad freeze this year, what I did was trip the breaker for the inverter and find an outlet that still worked. I have a couple in my coach.

I haven't actually tried that, but I would be very surprised if it worked. Looking at the breaker panel, there are no breakers that could feed outlets (from the labels) outside the inverter sub-panel.

joe

[Iron Man]

Generator will not be an issue. Our Essex and your King Aire are already set up for 240 volts. Our dryers are 240 volts. As some one at Newmar told me "if you have the money we have the time and the parts". If the AGM's went dead you might have to "trick the charger" to get them to charge. AGM batteries can take alot of abuse.

[CorporateMonkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingDiver CM - in our rig, there are NO outlets in the kitchen that don't go through the inverter sub-panel, fridge or otherwise. I could possibly move an outlet circuit from the inverter sub-panel to the main or other sub-panel, but none of them have enough capacity to run two induction burners simultaneously. Two of the 1500w burners would take 25 amp if run at the same time. I'm pretty sure you don't have a 25amp circuit to use. I sure don't - my biggest is 20 amp. Yes, I know it would be a pain to run the new line into the slide. But not impossible, the builders do it all the time. Heck, Newmar service ran 3 new coax lines into my main LR slide during the factory PDI (production left them out by mistake). joe

In our case we do have enough circuits to run two 120v hobs, granted one of them would run through the inverter (which is the way I want it, for emergencies).

In your case it looks like you will have to run a cable into the slide, unless the wiring was already run for you. I thought all KA's were electric only. I know yours was semi-custom, so you might want to check if they pre-installed the wiring for the electric cooktop.

I still would stick with 120v only, as retro fitting 240v wouldn't be fun, as your electrical panel is not set up for it. Unless you a have a 240v dryer you probably do not have any 240v equipment. You generator is most likely set up to provide two legs of 120v.
A lot of the bus conversions that have 240v cooktops run autotransformers. They used to stack the inverters, but that is going by the way side as xantrex discontinued their best 24v inverter (sw4024)

Now I am not condoning this (disclaimer mode on ) but when you look at how you use a cooktop how often do you run both burners on high at the same time? The odds of running 25amps is probably rare. You could use a single 20amp circuit, just know that if you ran them both full power you would trip the breaker. This would greatly simplify the installation.

[CorporateMonkey]

I see everyone posted as I was typing.

[FlyingDiver]

CM - Not all King Aires are all-electric. At least, not in 2008, though that might have changed since then. We took the all-electric option for the bigger battery bank, inverter, and residential fridge, but we kept the propane cooktop. Probably a mistake in hindsight, it's so wimpy. Those Seaward units are just not built for daily use.

IF we do this (and it's not sure that we will), I have my eye on a Wolf dual-burner induction unit to install. It's not cheap, but I'm sure it's a very high quality unit.

joe

[CorporateMonkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingDiver CM - Not all King Aires are all-electric. At least, not in 2008, though that might have changed since then. We took the all-electric option for the bigger battery bank, inverter, and residential fridge, but we kept the propane cooktop. Probably a mistake in hindsight, it's so wimpy. Those Seaward units are just not built for daily use. IF we do this (and it's not sure that we will), I have my eye on a Wolf dual-burner induction unit to install. It's not cheap, but I'm sure it's a very high quality unit. joe

If yours is set up that way you have a VERY unique coach. According the RVDude he had the very last hybrid (8agm's + gas) built. That was in late 2007.

Before you get a Wolf (subzero), find out who is making the coil. There are only a few coil makers. As far as I know, only Cooktek actually guarantees their product to work in a commercial kitchen. That's what makes them unique, along with the fact they make their own coil.

EDIT: I just found out who makes Wolf's coil: Jaeger Hiflux. So basically they are repackaging other equipment and 4x'ing the price.
Sorry if I seem like a "Captain Bring Down"

[FlyingDiver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorporateMonkey If yours is set up that way you have a VERY unique coach. According the RVDude he had the very last hybrid (8agm's + gas) built. That was in late 2007.

IF? How the heck would RVDude know what Newmar does on a custom build? Yes, we have a unique coach - the cooktop is the least of it.

joe

[CorporateMonkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingDiver IF? How the heck would RVDude know what Newmar does on a custom build? joe

I honestly couldn't tell you, but from the many discussions we have had, he has stated how the owner of Newmar (Miller?) didn't want to do his, and they took that option off the table completely after the hassle of creating his hybrid.

It has something to do with the having both the large propane tank, and the extra battery tray.

I know when my folks were at the factory I had them inquire about having the extra battery tray added, and Newmar said no (at any cost).

Maybe now with the economy they would rethink it, but I am past asking again.

When the next set of batteries are due I will be switching to Northstars AGM batteries, Marine Batteries, Heavy Duty Batteries, dry cell batteries
Their AGMs are half the width with the same energy rating. They achieve this by compressing the gel mat. They are expensive (about 30% more than Lifelines). But is a way to add more battery without massive changes.

[Route 66]

The only thing consistent about Newmar's Specials is their inconsistency.