which battery starts generator

[litespeed]

I am dry camping for a couple of weeks...1st time out with a DSDP..so am still learning and asking dumb questions. According to my voltmeter..the generator does not charge the chassis battery. And....my solar panel which is supposed to trickle charge the chassis battery quit after 4-5 days.

So if the chassis battery starts the gennie...am wondering how many times I can start my generator before chassis battery goes down. Of course if coach batteries start the gennie ...no problem.

Thanks.

[Norm4015]

Your generator will charge both the house and chassis batteries unless something id broke. Fire up the generator and use a voltmeter to check both sets of batteries and they both should be 13-14 volts. The generator starts from the chassis batteries.

[pkmesser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm4015 Your generator will charge both the house and chassis batteries unless something id broke. Fire up the generator and use a voltmeter to check both sets of batteries and they both should be 13-14 volts. The generator starts from the chassis batteries.

To take this a few steps further. Make this check, at least 90 seconds after the generator is supplying house power. If you do not get higher voltage on the chassis battery system, if you have an emergency start button or switch, have someone hold that in and make the check again. If the voltage then comes up, it indicates a problem with your BIRD itself. If it does not, then the isolation solinoid is probably bad. In either case, you could put a jumper across the posts on that solinoid, while the generator is running, to then charge the chassis battery. You should disconnect that jumper, when the generator is shut down. (the jumper should be big enough to carry the rated capacity of your convertor if the chassis battery(s) are way down).

For a fairly detailed explanation of the BIRD system, go to the "Quick tips and easy Mods" posting on this forum. Note that DP's and gas rigs are slightly different, but most if not all Newmars have the BIRD system in some form. You can also do a search for BIRD in this forum and find futher detailed info.

["007"]

Since I have own Newmars my house batteries have started the Gen.
The Gen will charge the house batteries first than charge the chassis batteries after the house are at full charge.
Your shore power line will do same thing
The altenator will charge the chassis batteries and house batteries.
The B.I.R.D. System will accomplish all of this.
Check these threads and links in them for your 5 watt panel.
You may have a loose wire in back of dash panel if its not working while parked under the sun.

[Norm4015]

Quote:

Originally Posted by "007" Since I have own Newmars my house batteries have started the Gen.

The OP has a Dutch Star with a diesel engine and his generator is started from the chassis batteries. The Newmar gas motorhomes start the generator from the house batteries. This is what I was told and someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again.

[Mr_D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm4015 Yes, I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again.

As the DW keeps telling me!!

[pkmesser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007";918713]The Gen will charge the house batteries first than charge the chassis batteries after the house are at full charge. Your shore power line will do same thing The altenator will charge the chassis batteries and house batteries. [B][URL="http://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/check-your-b-i-r-d-89009.html#post827708 The B.I.R.D. System[/URL][/B] will accomplish all of this. Check these threads and links in them for your 5 watt panel. You may have a loose wire in back of dash panel if its not working while parked under the sun.

At least on my system, and I have confirmed with a dtvm, it does not take a full charge for the isolator to connect both battery systems. It takes 13.1 volts, sensed on either system. Not sure how full of a charge 13.1 volts is, but it is not full. ( I could look it up, but not quite worth the trouble). Unless the side the charge is initially going to, is way down, 13.1 volts will be achieved fairly quickly. (This time to achieve 13.1 also affected by the rateing of the convertor, and the amp hr capacity of the battery system.)
I should modify my original suggestion to read; after generator is started, check voltage on house system, if it is at or above 13.1 volts, wait 90 seconds and proceed as stated, othewise wait until that voltage is attained and wait the 90 seconds. (the isolator solinoid is commanded to connect, after 90 seconds of 13.1 or higher volts)
This is the threshold voltage on the gas BIrD sysetm, and I believe I have read that it is the same on diesel units. (That voltage will represent the same level of charge on batteries, regardless of the engine type so I don't think there would be a logical reason for it to be different).

On the solar panel, I have a 5 amp fuse for it in a fuse panel. Now where that panel is on yours, I don't know.

[pkmesser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_D As the DW keeps telling me!!

In this regard, I am wrong, even when I was right.

And heaven forbid, if it gets proven that I was right to begin with, it really gets bad.

[Iron Man]

It is not across the board that all diesel Newmars generator start from the chassis batteies. I have a friend with at 03 Kountry Star and it uses the chassis batteries. He was dry camping and batteries went dead. Tried to srart generator but it would not turn over. We had to start the engine to charge the house batteries enough to start the generator.

["007"]

PK, its something to look into as to the difference between gas & DP Gen start.
The BIRD System is different on DP if thats going to make a difference in Gen start its to be seen.
We may have had a change to the Gen start from older years in newer DP coach's.
Any DP owner can disconnect his house battery bank and see if his Gen will start with house batteries disconnected or maybe just throw the battery cut off switch to find that out.
Right now I do not see how engine batteries could start Gen with BIRD System as wired.

[pkmesser]

007, as I have posted before, I had to dig into mine to troubleshoot some problems. The BiRD system to the extent I found, is limited to how battery systems are charged. If you review the literature on their website, that is it's purpose. That does not mean that it is in any way associated with where the generator gets it's power to start. I believe you could move the power lead for the generator starter from one source to the other, w/o any effect, other than that would then be where it gets it's starting power. What I am trying to say is, the BiRD system has nothing to do with generator starting. (If someone were really concerned about this capability, you could put in dual leads, and either a switch or power diodes, and have the capability to souce either way.)

["007"]

I agree with what you said and can do by giving the Gen a lead from either battery bank as Newmar I believed miss wired on some coach's.
I must be miss reading this PDF.

[pkmesser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007";919499]I agree with what you said and can do by giving the Gen a lead from either battery bank as Newmar I believed miss wired on some coach's. I must be miss reading [B][URL="http://www.irv2.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8600&d=1299082981 this PDF[/URL][/B].

In my earlier post, I said that "I believe I had read that the trigger voltages for the gas and diesel were 13.1 volts." I stand corrected on that. Based on the description, on the diesel BiRd's, the trigger voltage is 13.3 volts. I do stay with what I said about the gas BiRd trigger as being 13.1 volts. After reading this description, there are two more differences in how the two systems operate. On the gas version, when the voltage drops below 13.1 volts, the system seperates the batteries. On the diesel, it has to drop to 12.0 volts. The other big difference with the diesel version, is that if the engine is running, and the generator is running, the BiRD inhibits the connection. The logic to prevent damage to the convertor. (from what I know, convertors will protect themselves from overload, and as far as the breaker is concerned, if it trips, that is why you have it. It is not going to fail just because it tripped. If that were the case, we should be using cheaper fuses)
There is one advantage with the gas system, if you are driving like that, and your engine alternator fails, you can continue to travel with the generator working thru the convertor powering everything. Over time, your overall battery voltage may drop, as the overall demands may be more than the convertor supplies, especially at night. When that overall voltage dropped below 13.1, the system would stop supplying power to the chassis side. You would need to pull over, shut the engine down, and let the batteries build back up again. (Travel at night might be problematic, what with head and running lights on. Long time ago, I was with other people, and we did just that. It was prior to BiRd systems. That was in the reservations of NE Arizona, where service stations did not exist after sundown, but we found an alternator in an actual Indian tradeing post after about 150 miles of driveing at night, powered by the convertor. The dc power load included lights for a towed horse trailer.)
I am not too sure of the comparative logic the supplier has done here, a diesel powered rig will probably use less dc current to run than a gas powered engine. Also, the different connect point voltages don't quite make sense either. Lead acid batteries are all the same from a % charge vs voltage. Having a lower disconnect voltage than a connect voltage does make sense, so the system is not hunting all the time. There may be other good reasons for the systems to be different, but the supplied ones do not pass the test of logic.
I do know the solinoid for the gas versions is rated at 100 amps, and the diesel one is rated at 200 amps, and that makes sense for when that solinoid might be used for emergency starting.