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Old 09-18-2019, 07:44 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by Victory Blue View Post
There was a lot of doom and gloom 2+ years ago when Thor Industries (not Thor Motor Coach) bought Jayco (Entegra's parent company). Many predicted the quality would take a nosedive and, as for the 2 year warranty, well Thor would never allow that to stand. None of that has happened.

Some less than knowledgeable people still like to take potshots at Entegra for being owned by Thor, but I suspect they're pretty much clueless about most things. So, ignore most of what will be said by outsiders and owners of SOB, especially if you find it on the forums.

I expect the powers that be at Winnebago are astute enough to recognize what a gem they have in the Newmar brand and will leave it alone so it can continue to thrive.
Agreed. Well said.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:17 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by USMCRET View Post
I hope Mattís lawyers are as good as if not better than WBGOís.
Goldman Sachs is advising Winnebago.
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:21 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by Dan McMartin View Post
There's a lot of wild speculation and crazy predictions here. I was, like many of you, shocked and dismayed upon hearing the news. But after thinking about it, doing a bit of research and even talking with our dealer, the acquisition is probably a good thing.

Short term, nothing will change. Order your Newmar and enjoy your quality motorhome. Acquisition or not, there was never a guarantee that Newmar would be there in 5, 10 or 20 years. Nothing has changed in that regard. Life is risk.

Mid term, its probably positive too. As Newmar's tech and practices are adopted by Winnebago, both companies get stronger. As Newmar begins to take advantage of Winnie's size, dealer network and other capabilities, both companies get better.

Long term, as I said above it was a crap shoot last year, last month and last week. This changes nothing. Newmar might eventually be absorbed by Winnebago and their quality and service diluted. But without the sale, Newmar might have not survived the next economic downturn or been sold in desperation to Thor, REV or Berkshire/Hathaway. Same result, maybe even worse.

And all you have to do is look to Grand Design and see Newmar's future. Better and upgraded parts, new tech while maintaining high quality and service and growing on top of it all. Am I worried? A little about the long term but overall, I'm optimistic. Once the dust settles, I'm sure we'll all be wondering to some degree what all the fuss was about.
I gotta admit that my initial reaction was [Mod Edit] but that was just a knee jerk reaction. Here's a link to a Newmar dealership president's response.
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:36 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by PandS View Post
I don't think this is good news.


I'm really glad we bought our last coach first. We looked at the Winnebagos when we were doing our research/shopping and felt there was a significant difference in quality. We have had a few minor problems, but Newmar and NIRV stood by their product and satisfactorily resolved them in a timely manner - Even a couple that were no longer under warranty.


We are full timers and will keep our Ventana until we come off the road, so I guess the impact of the deal will be minimized for us. Still, it makes me sad to know it's the end of an era. -Paul
I wonder which brand NIRV will have to drop. In most of their dealerships, they sell both Entegra and Newmar. Not sure Jayco/Thor and Winnebago can co-exist as well as Entegra and Newmar did when it comes to dealerships. I have not done any research on this. Does anyone know if dealers currently selling Jayco products also carry the Winnebago brand?
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Old 09-19-2019, 11:19 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by jacques View Post
I wonder which brand NIRV will have to drop. In most of their dealerships, they sell both Entegra and Newmar. Not sure Jayco/Thor and Winnebago can co-exist as well as Entegra and Newmar did when it comes to dealerships. I have not done any research on this. Does anyone know if dealers currently selling Jayco products also carry the Winnebago brand?


General RV in Salt Lake City is a dealer for both Entegra and Winnebago Motorhomes.
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Old 09-19-2019, 11:32 AM   #356
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I'm certainly no expert on corporate structure, but WGO buying Newmar is nothing remotely similar to the chaos created by the Monaco bankruptcy. In that case, Monaco declaring BK "automatically" walked away from their liabilities, and owners were SOL.

ASSUMING that WGO will treat Newmar Corp as a wholly-owned subsidiary, I think that will keep the warranty and other liabilities of Newmar Corp. off of the WGO books. I don't believe the parent can be held liable for such costs IF a subsidiary corporation declares BK, which is highly unlikely in this case.
WGO warranty.
Warranty 3-year/100,000-mile basic limited warranty

10-year limited parts-and-labor warranty on fiberglass roof skin


This is the warranty on the Newmar website.

Newmar limited one-year unlimited-mile warranty
Every Newmar motor coach is backed by our one-year, unlimited-mile expressed limited warranty.
Newmar limited five-year structural warranty
If any part of your Newmar recreational vehicle superstructure (which is the steel / aluminum structure of the sidewall, roof or frame) fails to perform properly within five (5) years from the date of purchase because of faulty workmanship or material supplied by Newmar, it will be repaired without charge for either parts or labor by Newmar. This structural warranty is available only to the original purchaser and is non-transferable.
See your Newmar dealership for full warranty details.

This bodes well for Newmar new owners.
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Old 09-19-2019, 03:22 PM   #357
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I see alot of comments here about "hold on, Winnebago didn't buy Newmar to destroy it/lose money" like that's a statement that Newmar coaches will only improve or have no negative changes. But perception of any such changes is *highly* viewpoint dependent.

For example, from WGO's point of view, as long as profits go up things are improving, right? If they cut any amount from warranty/service/materials/manufacturing to change profit margin or increase sales (lower price point might mean more sales), will that make WGO happy with their evolution of Newmar? You bet your bottom-dollar. They certainly will not be thinking they destroyed Newmar as a business.

But will it make the existing community of Newmar owners happy? Possibly not. I keep coming back to my own experiences of looking at recent Winnebago-branded RVs vs something like a Newmar. The Winnies *all* felt way over-priced to me for the quality of finish and materials. They might have had the latest tech in them (which possibly ran up the cost?), but they didn't appear well-built or even where I'd feel good spending time (if you know what I mean.) And I'm not referring to size comparisons, class A vs class C differences, etc. However, Winnie is clearly still selling units and doing well as a business. If those RVs I've seen represent doing things the WGO way, then I expect my perceptions about what makes Newmar's special will eventually be destroyed.

The point being that implying a profitable business does **not** necessarily mean preserving what's important to me, you, or the next person. We'll each have our own perception of any changes. And, IMO, those views will likely be heavily influenced by your existing views of Winnies vs. Newmars.

That said, I do agree that any changes will take years to trickle out, so we won't know for a long time which way the wind is blowing.
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Old 09-19-2019, 05:19 PM   #358
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Winnebago acquires Newmar

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Originally Posted by joes2901 View Post
That sounds nice.

But what assures are there that Winnibago has contracted to take on all the costs of Newmar's warranties and promises to customers with pre-Winnebago Newmars?

Has Winnebago's Board and Executives agreed and established funding for the costs?

Are there new limits on the costs Winnebago will pay to dealers and service people for repairing pre-Winnebago Newmars?

Has the Miller family agreed to pay the warranty and service bills that Winnebago subsequently decides are not theirs to pay?

What incentive/s has been offered to the current Newmar employees to not slip into the "Quick and Careless" mode of doing their work since the Millers are abandoning them?

Is Winnebago picking up the costs of Newmar's promises and retirement plan promises to the current employees?

Will dealers and service people stop accepting warranty work on pre-Winnebago Newmars because their assurance of being paid has evaporated?

Remember what happened to Monaco owners seeking warranty service (the company was bankrupted then bought and sold twice) and service people began to ask the Monaco customer to pay for the service and seek reimbursement from whoever on their own.
My opinion based on other large buy/sells I have been involved in in my automotive career. For current customers (anyone within the 1 year House and Newmar structural warranties)

WB purchased Newmar. They did not close Newmar and open a new company. The example of Monaco is totally different, they went bankrupt. A purchase will most likely be handled one of two ways, ( obviously over simplified )
WBís purchase included all assets, liabilities and profits, (most likely).

Or The old Newmar(Millerís) retained the liabilities and money was put aside into an account to cover these expenses, and WB will pay out the warranties and litigation remaining under their ownership, seamless to the customer, (less likely).
Either way the consumer will be protected. This being said what may or may not be effected is Newmarís generous coverage considerations for out of warranty repairs. Newmar has been second to none in assisting customers even out of warranty.

future model years will have warrantyís spelled out in writing prior to any purchases. Nothing says anything will change.
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Old 09-19-2019, 05:47 PM   #359
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As we wait to see the changes at Newmar in the next couple months we know there will be changes. Not wanting to be negative but with what we have seen in the last decade with changes in ownership almost all have gone that direction.
Remember Winnebago purchased the Country Coach factory and the use of their name for future coaches in Oregon. They were going to build all their diesel coaches and spent a lot of money redoing the factory but after a couple months they just dropped the plan. They said the number 1 reason was could get their suppliers to Oregon and that was it.
It was easier for Winnebago to buy Newmar rather then bring back Country Coach.
The one area we are most concerned about is the Spartan chassis. Winnebago used Spartan chassis for many years a decade ago but are purchasing front and rear sections from Fl and then welding their own mid section.
Winnebago really wants the Newmar high line coaches and now they are under their management. Lets hope for all Newmar owners that the Newmar future looks great and that the history of Newmar continues.
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Old 09-19-2019, 05:55 PM   #360
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My prediction:

* No more choice in chassis for coach model. A single chassis will be offered for the model

* drastically limited customizations year 1 and ultimately no customizations within 3 years

* 2 year warranty standard, with multiple factory service Centers in the us.

* rebadged class c coaches added with newmar brand
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Old 09-19-2019, 05:56 PM   #361
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Retired Certified Financial Planner here.
Life insurance purchased by the company on the owners life with the beneficiary as the company is not compensation. And is a tax deduction for the company.



Was not according to our accountant. (Sub S Corp.)


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Old 09-19-2019, 06:44 PM   #362
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Was not according to our accountant. (Sub S Corp.)


Tom
S Corps have quite a few exceptions for tax deductions vs C Corps. Since this is an RV forum, and not an estate planning forum, I made a generalization.

For everyone...check with your attorney and your CPA, and your financial advisor to determine the best Corp type (or LLC, or partnership) for your biz in your state.
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Old 09-19-2019, 06:46 PM   #363
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Love this, getting all the expert pros and cons on the Newmar acquisition, doom & gloom, etc. and an education in estate planning as a bonus.
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Old 09-19-2019, 07:02 PM   #364
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Winnebago acquires Newmar

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Originally Posted by Akdare View Post
S Corps have quite a few exceptions for tax deductions vs C Corps. Since this is an RV forum, and not an estate planning forum, I made a generalization.



For everyone...check with your attorney and your CPA, and your financial advisor to determine the best Corp type (or LLC, or partnership) for your biz in your state.


Sorry guys, but in all due respect...
What on EARTH does all this legal/insurance/accounting business have to do with this topic of discussion?

I mean, itís probably useful in some other forum, but seems to be way out of context here.
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