Winnebago acquires Newmar

[edgray]

Originally Posted by ptw

This is from the Camp Freightliner manual showing the XCM (Modular) chassis that allows the RV manufacturer to add the center section.

YES. And several coach builders have bought these front and rear "clips" that provide all the important stuff, and allow them to build the center section(s) to suit their specific coaches.

[lash540]

Originally Posted by FLJOE

Wow, 375 comments and counting, almost all of them negative.

Maybe it won't change anything. Maybe the benefit packages for Newmar employees will improve, like top-of-line medical benefits or something.

As long as they don't start painting "Big Winnie" across the back of new Dutch Stars it ain't no big deal my nervous friends.

Agreed, this is probably the most intelligent statement so far. I believe I even read someone say there RVing experience is going to end sooner then they thought. Wow

[CoreyinWP]

Have to agree with the crowd of doomsayers...went to visit my beautiful 2017 Ventana in the storage lot the day after the announcement.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling _______C. Little

[CaptainGizmo]

Originally Posted by Akdare

With all due respect, when has any long thread not drifted off topic...



Some posts were presenting misinformation as fact. I made a post to correct the misinformation. Obviously, others were interested, as they quoted my post.



No need to be scolding any of us.

I’m not scolding at all. I merely said I don’t get the relevance and thought it would be beneficial in another thread based on the topic that you and others are interested in.

I understand topic-drifting happens, but that doesn’t make it right, nor does it help other folks. All it does is completely mess up any chances of anyone attempting to search for relevant information.

Funny how forums are supposed to helpful and “self-policing”, yet the moment you try to help by point something out, you’re accused of “scolding”. Why make the Mods jobs harder than it already is?

Oh Brother.

At any rate, I suppose this thread became irrelevant after the first few hours. So, carry on.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by USMCRET

I’ll wager no one knows, including the two entities involved. In my experience, in spite of what is taught in business schools, corporations make it up as they go, and EVERYTHING is subject to change.

I suspect nothing significant affecting the customer will change in the next 18-24 months. After that, all bets are off.

The Great Carsini has spoken.

Especially since right now, it's simply a deal in principle. It still has to pass regulatory approval before the sale actually takes place.

I doubt they are going to change anything significant until they get regulatory approval.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by edgray

I'm certainly no expert on corporate structure, but WGO buying Newmar is nothing remotely similar to the chaos created by the Monaco bankruptcy. In that case, Monaco declaring BK "automatically" walked away from their liabilities, and owners were SOL.

ASSUMING that WGO will treat Newmar Corp as a wholly-owned subsidiary, I think that will keep the warranty and other liabilities of Newmar Corp. off of the WGO books. I don't believe the parent can be held liable for such costs IF a subsidiary corporation declares BK, which is highly unlikely in this case.

Exactly, this isn't a bankruptcy/liquidation event. The warranty concern is a non factor.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by Stuart W

My opinion based on other large buy/sells I have been involved in in my automotive career. For current customers (anyone within the 1 year House and Newmar structural warranties)

WB purchased Newmar. They did not close Newmar and open a new company. The example of Monaco is totally different, they went bankrupt. A purchase will most likely be handled one of two ways, ( obviously over simplified )
WB’s purchase included all assets, liabilities and profits, (most likely).

Or The old Newmar(Miller’s) retained the liabilities and money was put aside into an account to cover these expenses, and WB will pay out the warranties and litigation remaining under their ownership, seamless to the customer, (less likely).
Either way the consumer will be protected. This being said what may or may not be effected is Newmar’s generous coverage considerations for out of warranty repairs. Newmar has been second to none in assisting customers even out of warranty.

future model years will have warranty’s spelled out in writing prior to any purchases. Nothing says anything will change.

I would be very surprised if it wasn't a total purchase, including liabilities. I doubt Miller would be responsible for any ongoing warranty or other costs, with one big exception. During a purchase like this, there is a section in the purchase agreement related to reps and warranties, where the seller makes certain representations (reps) about the state of the business, known liabilities (including customer warranty costs, pending/likely lawsuits, etc.), and then warrants (the warranty part of reps and warranties) that hey have not knowingly or intentionally left out any material liabilities.

Typically there are also clawback provisions. For instance, if they represent they have no EPA issues and then it turns out they've been digging ditches out back and pouring oil, solvents, etc. and there is a soil/ground water contimnation problem that wasn't disclosed in the reps section, then WGO can go after Miller to recoup that costs.

That's pretty standard and I'm sure that's what's in play here.

As others have said, this is nothing like a bankruptcy/liquidation, so anyone worried about there warranty not being covered due to this sale are really worrying about the wrong thing.

How many times has Chrysler been bought/sold in the last two decades? Volvo? Jaguar? The list goes on. How many people were stuck with no warranty coverage.

Considering Newmar has 661 million in revenue and Winne 2 billion, this is a substantial purchase for WGO, which results in them paying $270 million in cash and 6% of their stock. They aren't doing that to then put Newmar into bankruptcy to avoid warranty repairs.

Put another way, the purchase of Newmar immediately results in a 1/3 increase in Winne revenue.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by millerj

This further supports my decision to buy a Tiffin after owning two Newmar coaches. In fact I just got back from Red Bay after touring the chassis factory and the Tiffin paint plant in Belmont MS. One thing I heard over and over from Tiffin customers is the excellent customer service they receive from Tiffin. I heard story after story of repairs being performed for no charge even though they were out of warranty. My new coach was just leaving paint and should be delivered to the dealer around the first of October. I hope things go well for all of my Newmar friends.

Tiffin is the best in the business when it comes to customer service, including out of warranty repairs. A counter point on that would be that they've had to, because there manufacturing practices and QC have been VERY suspect, both when Bob Tiffin retired (before having to come back due to the train wreck his kids created) and since.

That said, I strongly considered a Tiffin due to the fact they stand behind their many manufacturing defects better than anyone else and they are only 5.5 hours away. Just didn't have a floor plan fit for me, and I was nervous about the insulation (or lack there of in places) and production QC problems.

Only time will tell if Newmar starts having the same kind of production problems as Tiffin and if there customer service gets significantly worse.

This might be a bad change for Newmar, it might be a good one.

[joes2901]

Originally Posted by Akdare

S Corps have quite a few exceptions for tax deductions vs C Corps. Since this is an RV forum, and not an estate planning forum, I made a generalization.

For everyone...check with your attorney and your CPA, and your financial advisor to determine the best Corp type (or LLC, or partnership) for your biz in your state.

Thanks Akdare, you are correct.
As a retired CPA/MBA I learned how hard it is to explain the complexity of business succession and trust planning to people just worried about being able to make the payroll and tax payments. Based on Newmar's pricing practice I now require $2,000 per hour with a minimum of 2 hours for consulting services. But, I am happy to offer free help to fellow motorhome owners about improving our toys.

[joes2901]

Originally Posted by CaptainGizmo

Sorry guys, but in all due respect...
What on EARTH does all this legal/insurance/accounting business have to do with this topic of discussion?

I mean, it’s probably useful in some other forum, but seems to be way out of context here.

I think it is pertinent due to our concerns about the continuation of Newmar as a source of quality motorhomes and service. How/why does someone dump the corpse of a profitible, well regarded, company with repeat customers and walk away with cash and become an employee of the company now under the strictures of a large corporation whose culture and exec/mgmt thinking prohibited it from building higher quality motorhomes and service than Newmar.

Posts regarding the tax impact when selling a business was answered with minimal info about insurance and tax planning.

[DeanM2]

Originally Posted by DGBPokes

... I have been apart of way to many of these acquisitions in my career. If you are the acquirer yea, but if you are the one being acquired.......... not so good.

Agreed. I have come to understand how important the "culture" of an organization is. The culture of the acquired company is the first asset to be eliminated.

[MidMichHunte]

12 months ago, we were wondering what manufacturer we should pick as our first MH – Decision made, it’s going to be a Newmar.

8-6 Months ago, typical, Gas or DP decision – Decided DP, but DW decided Gas due to $$$, so it’s going to be a gasser.

4 months ago, the question was which Newmar - Decided on a Bay Star

A month ago, decided on a 3609

2-3 weeks ago, the question was: 2019 off the lot or order a 2020 exactly as we wanted it. Order a 2020 was decided.

Last weekend decided to set up a Factory Tour and spec out the “Specials” we want.

Last Monday early morning (9/16) Called Newmar, set up tour date and exchanged emails on what Specials they’d let us do on a Bay Star. Got most of what we wanted.

Last Monday late afternoon/early evening read the news, Newmar acquired by Winnebago, Oh Shoot…

All week, wondering what to do, jump ship, wait to see what happens to Newmar or just order now and get a Newmar built MH, prior to Winnebago taking over.

We’re still not 100% sure when to do it, but I will tell you, it’s going to be a Newmar/Winnebago Bay Star 3609. We spent too much time looking to find what we want to change plans now. Are we crazy? Some will think so, but other will not.

The current question is when to place the order, now, next week, next month, in 3 months or next year? Any & all suggestions are welcome on this, so please share your thoughts and reasoning why.

After reading this thread over the week along with other Winnebago, Newmar and independent write ups/posts on the acquisition, and looking at where Newmar will fit into the Winnebago family, I feel confident it’s a win/win/win:

• Win for Winnebago: They are getting a Marquise name, a highly respected company with a high quality HM line & group of Craftsmen to continue the success. Oh, and they took a competitor out.

• Win for Newmar: Winnebago has deep pockets, a good infrastructure and buying power. Not to mention the gap in the Winnebago offerings are nicely filled by Newmar.

• Win for customers: Efficiencies both in purchasing and manufacturing should decrease costs. Also, Winnebago has better warranties and more repair facilities than Newmar. Now I just hope they will support the Newmar product line.

Now all of this is just my opinion as an outsider looking in, but after looking at the attached presentation I found, and thinking about the amount of $ spent to get Newmar, Winnebago understands what they got and sees a good ROI from the acquisition, why would the change it too much?

OK, there will be changes, probably over the $5mln in synergies they mentioned, but I don’t see Newmar looking much different in 5-10yrs. There may be a smaller DP line, they may sunset 1 maybe, 2 at the most. IMHO, the DP line is really why they bought Newmar. I’d bet at least one gasser, probably the Bay Star Sport, will be sunset, it’s too close in quality to other Winnebago models.

The Canyon Star is a question mark in my mind, maybe it’ll become their customizable/High End gas MH while they Bay Star becomes standardized, no options.

The new Super Star Super C? Could the release of this been tied to the acquisition? Coincidence???

So, this went a different direction than I thought it would when I started typing; if you’re still reading this, thanks for putting up with my rambling on. If you think I’m off may rocker, you’re possibly right, but remember, as I said above, this is just my opinion or $0.02, and it’s probably worth just about that…

[Stuart W]

What do we know for sure at this point:
WB purchased Newmar.

All of the negative speculation is likely to devalue the resale values of our Newmars, cause people to panic and cancel orders to buy lesser quality RV’s
I’m positive that I own the best RV brand on the market, and I’m sure that there will be no issues with getting warranty work done and paid for by Newmar.
I would like all actual owners of Newmar’s to consider this and if anything negative comes up then we will discuss it as always.
Stuart W

[CoreyinWP]

https://youtu.be/0aQTLFnp4g4