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Old 03-14-2016, 06:11 PM   #1
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1998 36' Freedom 10 inverter/charger

After discharging my NEW house battery I connected to shore power to recharge; only to discover that (I think) the charger has failed.

I get engine alternator charging current at both batteries with the engine running. And with inverter on I get ac to the house circuits.

On shore power I have ac power to the electrical service panel in the hall and to the inverter but neither dc to the batteries nor ac power to the house circuits.

Same result with the generator running. No battery charging or ac house power.

With an external battery charger and the inverter I have ac house power.

Questions;
Is the system designed to deliver ac power ONLY through the inverter?

Is the Freedom 10 inverter/charger unit repairable or must it be replaced?

Are Freedom 10 units still available? I'd like to "plug and play". Prefer not to have to do any re-wiring and I want to keep the existing remote display panel.

Thanks for advice.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:50 PM   #2
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OK--did any of this work before you installed your "new" house batteries? If yes, something went wrong with the battery install. Could be a grounding issue-- did the cross ground cable between the battery banks get reconnected?
Ref your questions:
1-you have two sets of AC circuits: a- those directly powered by shore power or genset; and b-those that are powered thru the inverter [eg microwave]. The "b" circuits derive 120v power from batteries when off the grid, and directly via a "by=pass" function when on shore power or genset.

2-The Freedom Combi is an older, mod-syn wave inverter, nolonger in production and probably not repairable.

3- most new inverters will require a new control panel and new wire, unless the existing wire can be modified with new ends [possible].

Much of your description of what is, and is not working, and when doesnt follow for me. Again, I am suspicious about what happened when you installed new bats. PM me if you like and we can discuss this in more detail.....
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Old 03-15-2016, 01:03 AM   #3
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Old Scout, I don't know if "any of this worked" before I installed the new battery because I never connected to shore power or ran the genset while I had a dead house battery.

Nothing "unusual" happened when the new battery was installed. It was a simple matter of disconnecting cables from the posts, removing and replacing the battery and re-connecting the cables to the new batt. It would be possible, but it would take a conscious effort to reverse the cables.

"The "b" circuits derive 120v power from batteries when off the grid, and directly via a "by=pass" function when on shore power or genset."

This is the problem- I am getting no power via a by-pass. I think the internal transfer switch (by-pass) and/or the charger is defective. I can only get power to the ac circuits if the house battery has some charge and the inverter is turned on.

Neither the genset nor shore power will charge the battery.

The problem isn't apparent until the battery voltage drops to 10 volts and the inverter automatically turns off. That is when I connected shore power and discovered that it will not charge the battery.
Power is getting from the power cord to the service panel but it is not passing through the inverter/charger to the battery. That is why I think the transfer switch is defective.

The only way to charge the battery is by running the engine/alternator.
Any other suggestions?
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Old 03-15-2016, 01:14 AM   #4
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How many batteries were replaced, all or just one?
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Old 03-15-2016, 07:53 AM   #5
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Both the engine and house batteries were replaced with 8D's; same as the old ones. The cables and connectors were in good shape so they were not changed.

I have driven about 1000 miles since the battery swap and since then the coach has been sitting for several weeks.
The house battery was discharged by the furnace.

Is there anything other than the transfer switch or charger that would prevent the genset or shore cable from supplying power to the circuits or to the battery?

What is recommended as a replacement inverter/charger?
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Old 03-15-2016, 09:52 AM   #6
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Ok--things are a bit clearer for me. Are you getting 120v power to the gray service panel when either on shore power or on genset? If so, all of your 120v "a" circuits [example A/Cs heatpumps on roof] should be working and therefore, your auto transfer switch is ok.
A 30 amp breaker in the gray panel feeds 120v power [shorepower or genset] to the inverter, inturn, your inverter provides 120v power [either by-pass or inverted] back to the black service panel for all b circuits. The fact that you get b circuit power if bats are charged, indicates inverter portion is working.
So as you suspect charger and by-pass functions must not be working. There is one external pop fuses [white] on the inverter--not sure if fuse affects some or all inverter functions.
So lets review--stand by.....
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Old 03-15-2016, 10:07 AM   #7
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First-- asking about battery install is not a dig--you cant believe how many times this "simple" process gets messed up.

Second--need to confirm that you are getting "a" circuit 120v power while on shore power or genset [also confirm that genset is producing power]

Third--reconfirm that shore/genset 120v power is getting to input lugs on inverter, then reconfirm that no 120v is coming from output lugs on invert [while in by-pass mode]. If at this point, no by-pass or charging, the invert is bad [also assume you have tried pushing the charge button on panel to force charge?]

Not sure if repair service for old Freedoms is available [in your area]. Frankly, if you are going to keep the coach for awhile, think you will want a new pure syn-wave inverter anyway.

Do a search of this forum on inverter replacement. Two brands come to mind: Magnum and Xantrex. Ironically, Xantrex's offerings are Freedom designed--they bought the company. You have a choice of either 2000w or 3000w models. 2000w is all you need but its a personal choice. Only issue here is that some models are compatible with existing cables, control panels or Silver Leaf. Suspect you will need new panel and maybe new cable, regardless.

Offer still stands to talk off-line--PM me if you like....

PS--the auto transfer switch I referred to earlier is the remote switch on the incoming shore power line, not the internal by-pass switch in the inverter.
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Old 03-15-2016, 04:36 PM   #8
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Old Scout,
Thank you for the input and patience. With your explanations I've been able to determine a few things.

Both shore power and genset will operate both roof a/c's.

Still no charging current to the batteries from either shore power or gen set.

Inverter will power 110v lights and receptacles except for the receptacle in the cabinet above the microwave. And the microwave will not operate with power from another good receptacle. I assume bad receptacle and possible bad micro oven.

Genset will crank but not start unless the coach engine is running.

Have not found any external transfer switch.

Will have to remove inverter/charger from cabinet in order to access the input and output leads. Have not done that yet.

So 2 unresolved problems- genset not starting on battery power alone and inability to charge batteries on either shore power or genset power.

I assume that some service facility can verify that the charger is toast before I buy a replacement inverter/charger.

I am finding other issues also but lack of battery charging is the most troublesome at this point.

Thanks for the ideas. I'll continue to report progress.
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Old 03-15-2016, 05:20 PM   #9
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Alpines vary as to which battery bank is used to start the genset. If your house bats are low--and they are what start you genset--then genset wont start until Cummins running or remote charger recovers the house bats. Just so you know "a" and "b" circuits are scattered thru out the coach so this explains why some outlets work and others dont--with regard to determining whether by-pass function in the inverter is bad.

Still need to know if 120v power is indeed getting to the input lugs on the inverter, while on shore power or genset. Until we are certain of that -- its hard to say whether the inverter is bad or not [since you get "b" circuits lights with the bats are charged and in invert mode, we can assume 120v output lugs and down stream circuits are working correctly].

Disclaimer: the accruarcy of my inputs to you is limited to the extent that your 98 is like my 03 Alpine. My coach came with a Freedom invert and was one of the first with a residential refridge. At this point, I believe the wiring configs in our coaches are the same/similar.
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:31 PM   #10
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Hi

I have a Freedom 458 2000 W inverter and had no power going to the the AC circuits powered thru the inverter when on shorepower or Genset. I did have power to these circuits when inverting. I did not have any charging going on. Old Scout and many others helped me a lot with my problem. You can find the posts under "no AC on GFI circuits" .I had to take it to a Xantrex service center where they determined it was a bad transfer board. 80$ to bench check and 20$ labor and 295$$ for the board and I'm back in business. Google Xantrex and you will see on their website "find a repair center" to see if there is one near you (don't know where you are). It was a 3 day turnaround at the Seattle shop. Good luck

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Old 05-06-2016, 10:48 AM   #11
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Freedom 10 inverter/charger update

Xantrex no longer supports the Freedom 10. But, I finally found a trouble shooting guide online that addressed my symptoms.

A 1/4 amp fuse had blown. It was a PITA to remove the unit from the cabinet but worth the effort.

Package of 5 fuses for less than $4. Far better than buying a new inverter/charger.

Makes me wonder how many of these units have been replaced when a simple repair would solve the problem
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Old 05-07-2016, 12:20 PM   #12
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I just saw your post re: Heart Interface system. I had the same system on my liveaboard sailboat, and mine had a Link 2000 controller which allowed much flexability . Does yours have that feature, for if it does, you can scroll thru the system and it will tell you what's going on. You may have inadvertently turned off your charge feature. Also, on top of the charger itself, there is a small red reset button, try that.
I used mine for years, and it was bulletproof, but it's a dinosaur now. The new inverters are much better. Dudley Do-Right
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