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Old 08-05-2016, 09:44 AM   #57
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All,

As you know I've been dealing with JCA for a couple of weeks trying to get a new VMM. I will say that my dealings have been a lot less urgent than yours. I am still able to use my partially functioning front VMM.

I was reluctant to sound like too much of a squeaky wheel. I have since discovered that a couple of others seem to share my opinion of JCA, their lack of support and difficulty in dealing with them.

That said, I am very frustrated in dealing with JCA, I told Lorna I would send my money on Wed the 3rd and I received a reply from her saying the only had one in stock and they wouldn't get any more until Aug 31. She suggested I wire the full amount for two and they would ship the first as soon as the money cleared and the second when they received their shipment. I asked if the shipping cost for the second one would be on their dime and she replied NO I would have to pay shipping. After some discussion about my being penalized for their inability to stock their product and the difficulty of dealing with them she talked to a manager and they agreed to pay the shipping for my second unit. I am estimating the shipping to be over $100 to So Cal, 4-5 day time frame.

I am also very dissatisfied with JCA, not to mention the lack of support from PH regarding their distributor. I mentioned to both PH and Lorna at JCA that I got a pump from England in 4 days and paid with a credit card and I can't understand why this process is so cumbersome. I also complained about the fact that they had one programmer who was out of the office from 7/25 until 8/8 and too bad for their customers.

I believe Vtxbiker, Paul, has been trying to contact MCI to see if they have any info. The Swans mentioned contacting PH to get somebody in the states to handle the VMMs, Mike Fleming I believe. I wonder if we could get any help from MCI since they already deal with VMMs of some type. I don't know if that would be a way to order without the red tape and lead times.

I am curious about how many Vansco Alpines there are. I am thinking that the number of us that need new units at the same time is a good thing, it brings this issue to the forefront and maybe it will benefit us all in the future. I also am curious about how many of us would be interested in buying a spare.

The 2820s are not out of production, they are just not always in stock. The price is not coming down any, unlike other electronics. PH doesn't support their product but tout it as, self programming for field replacement in the unlikely event of a failure, their words. JCA advises against buying a non programmed unit and urges you to pay the $250 for programming. There is a lot of contradictory information.

I don't mind spending money, I just want it to be money well spent.

Terry
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:49 AM   #58
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JCA is suppose to be able to test the PDM that I also sent. There has been Issues with the PDM's in the Past on 2005 Alpines

The Parlier's
2005 Alpine Limited[/QUOTE]

This is news to me, I don't recall seeing any posts on bad PDMs. Maybe I missed something along the way. I wonder how prevalent it is.

Terry
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:07 AM   #59
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I did contact the application specialist for Parker Hanflin that sold the 2820 to WRV when they were in business.

He told me they are still making the 2820s for replacement for JCA and other key customers.

He said as of right now, no need to worry about 2820 availability.

Sounds like our big issue is with the distributor JCA.

Looking at JCA website buried deep down is a customer satisfaction survey which would not do any good fill out. Maybe, we could get more attention from JCA if talked about social media.
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:04 PM   #60
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Kraig,

I agree that the problem lies with JCA, but I would think that PH would be concerned about their reputation and choice of distributors, I see it as a reflection on them. I don't know squat about social media, I don't even have a facebook account. I do know that you can put a lot of pressure on a company or an organization by voicing opinions or posting your issues.

I would be willing to open an account if we think it might help our situation.

The Swans seemed to think that one of the Vansco/PH reps seemed concerned with our plight so that might be a good starting point.

Vxtbiker is also checking with MCI.

I don't know if a VMM could be repaired if the right company was found??

I talked to Kirk Lola at PH and he was very corporate and non committal and basically said we're at the mercy of JCA.

It would be great to have a U.S. distributor. A company that will stock a couple and restock as they are sold. I know it's an expensive slow moving item and a company wouldn't want 50 of them sitting on a shelf. As it stands now, even if you're willing to fork out the dough for overnight delivery it still takes 72 hours for a wire transfer to clear. As for the overnighting, at this point in time, they won't even have the 2820s available until 8/31. If you break down today you're stuck for about 4 more weeks.

I'm willing to help in any way I can, I'm hoping that by buying a spare VMM I will never have another failure.

Terry
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:21 PM   #61
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MCI and Vansco modules

Ok, I have an update on the Vansco 2820 modules. I contacted Motor Coach Industries (MCI) about the modules they use in their coaches. I called the tech line and got to talk to a great guy about the units. They have 2 part numbers they use T07-3057 and T07-3057PRO. The first one has no program and the second one will have the program for the coach. The one without the program does plug and play as we have already determined. That is the one that should work for us. I told him I had an Alpine but he was not familiar with them but after describing the unit he said it should be the same one. I did inquire about the price but he could not give me the info and transferred me to the parts department and they could not give it to me. You have to be a distributor to get the part so he gave me a name to call. The name is WW Williams, it is a large truck and rv repair facility. They have repair facilities all over the US. He gave me the number for the Atlanta,Ga facility. It is 404-366-1070.
I called and gave them the part #T07-3057. The good news they can get the part to me in 2 to 4 days, the bad news it cost $2198.44.
Now, I have no way of knowing for sure that this module will work for us but it sure sounds like it would and if so would eliminate all the Canada BS.
I hope this information helps and in a pinch it might be worth a try to get out of a bad situation.

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Old 08-05-2016, 06:24 PM   #62
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Recent experience: A fellow welds on his 2008 Alpine Coach frame w/out disconnecting the VMMs (or the Allison TCM which has a specific warning label in the battery compartment, or ECM...). 2nd time he welded on the frame, 1st was a revision to trailer hitch. Immediately coach would not start. Dead rear VMM "network."
His coach was in his driveway mostly, only about 8ft or so was stuck out in the roadway.
Fellow procured a blank VMM (don't recall if it was from JCA but think so). Plugged it into the rear VMM position w/all power off. Turned power ON at chassis batt switch, unit self programmed.

Also, thru vast internal spelunking with PH, determined that you cannot re-program an already programmed VMM if you only have one working VMM in the system; this creates a 2-competing-programs "stalemate" where system cannot decide which program is the right one. If you have a coach w/2 good VMMs w/same programming and the right pigtail (which I now have), you can reprogram a 3rd off the 2 Alpine VMMs.

2004 VMM programming is different than 2005+. 2005+ appears to be the same. I have actual ladder logic ouput from an 08 which has same LED schedules as for a 2005; I've checked the connectors and our 08 is missing some wires present on an 05 connector but has no new wires. So with the proper pigtail a good 2004 coach could program an improperly programmed VMM for a 2004 application, and a blank VMM for itself using only the lower left connector from the bad VMM position, starting from all-power-off status. A 2005+ coach could do similarly for a 2005+ application.
Avalanche programming is different, so would need an Avalanche to deal w/that application.
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Old 08-05-2016, 07:05 PM   #63
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So, if I read Mike's post correctly, I could purchase a non programmed 2820 for my 05, replace either one of the good units that are now in the coach, turn the power back on and the new unit would program from the existing good unit? Is this a correct scenario?
I could then just leave the new 2820 in place and keep the old good one as a good fully programmed spare.
Expensive but sounds reasonable considering the difficulty obtaining a new unit while on the road.
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Old 08-05-2016, 08:37 PM   #64
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Another quick post - FIrst & Foremost - WE ARE RUNNING AGAIN!!!!

We got our new blank VMM2820 by 10am this morning at the local FedEx Office.
We got back to the coach and things went from bad to worse! Even our HWH system went out ... Dale from Silverleaf came over and tested Silvereleaf and the Vansco and said there was definitely as SHORT in the Vansco Module that was interfering with the Silverleaf operation and wiped out the HWH program. We couldn't close or open slides & drawers even manually - or gen slide. We plugged in the blank module and turned the power back on and it did not play (or reprogram). 5 hours later - & after talking w Mike - we put the good Module in the back and the blank one in the front and followed the posted directions on the Tech Library for reprogramming EXACTLY - and WHAMO - when I turned the key over to start the motor - IT STARTED!!!! After 6 days being DEAD - what a relief that was!!!! And everything came back on board!!!!

This HORRIBLE experience with JCA has reinforced the feeling that we need to band together and insist that P/H change what they have put in place with JCA and find another distributor. I was completely warn out when we were finished with "the fix" and I did not contact PH - in Canada or in Indiana - but I will Monday Morning while we are in NH or in ME and see what these Customer Service people have to say!

My post isn't too quick or short so I will say good night and Thank You Lord for getting this problem resolved!!!! Til next time ....
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Old 08-05-2016, 08:43 PM   #65
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PS - I forgot to say We Paid JCA $1375 wired to them Tues night. What we paid FedEx for Express service is yet to be determined because I can't find it on anything or on their website. I will have to check our credit card in a few days, I guess - but it may have been $250. In spite of JCA telling me a bunch of complicated instructions for getting it through Customs - FedEx said it is all automatic for them to get it signed off thru customs and we don't think there were any Custom charges. As long as the paperwork from shipper is correct, there is no problem!
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:59 AM   #66
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All.

First off, Swans, I'm glad you're back in business, that's good news. It also confirms the self programming capabilities of the 2820s.

It appears that you wired your money on Tues evening 8/2 and had your new unit in hand on Fri 8/5. So much for the 72 hours that JCA claims it takes the money transfer to clear.

Again it seems we get conflicting info from them. I am also curious if they advised you against ordering a blank VMM and pushed their programming as the best way to go.

It looks like Paul, Vtxbiker, has come up with an alternative to JCA, not an inexpensive alternative, $2298 vs $1350, but it is a US contact and possibly a way to order with a card, convenience! I'm thinking if there's one place, there may be others. I would think that if you're broken down in BFE you might have to wire money from your bank to a local bank and then on to JCA, I don't know.

Engineer Mike,

When I get my new VMMs I will end up with a new one in service and a new programmed one safely stored in the basement. I will also have the one I'm replacing which works, but wants to reboot itself every 15 minutes! My thoughts are to keep it as a spare also, it works for the front, unusable in the rear, kills the engine every 15 minutes.

That said, if you think you'd like to fiddle with it, let me know. I don't know if there's anything to be learned from it or if there's a way to wipe it clean and attempt to reprogram it? Would a repair, if possible, be cost effective??

In closing, if anybody wants to march on PH or JCA with pitchforks and torches count me in. You can count me in even if you only want to write emails or letters, not nearly as fun!! Social media is a challenge for me, but I have friends who know stuff

Terry
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Old 08-06-2016, 03:00 PM   #67
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I understand there is a lot frustration ordering 2820s through JCA. I don't think we should too upset PH as they are the only place that makes the 2820.

In my opinion as far as getting parts in the states, I would have hard time believing that a different part number would be programed right for WRV. A different part number would have be programmed for WRV. If it was that easy, PH would just have updated part number. Besides it looks as if we got it from an RV Dealer they would charge us RV prices.

PH told me years ago they picked only one dealer JCA to handle 2820 replacements. JCA is near PH, so that is why they picked them. It may not be easy right now to get PH find a different distributor.

As far as shipping goes, I think Fed Ex, if someone calls their international shipping department, they should be able to handle it easier than setting up an account for each purchase.

I think our biggest problem is poor customer service from JCA. John Anderson owner 204 415 1104. I think, those of you that have had recent problems should contact John by phone or email and tell him your bad experience. I would also ask why they cannot use a credit card even if they charged you fee for it. Everybody takes cards now and I think the money should be there right away. Maybe somebody knows the answer for sure. Wire fees cost money and time too.

After you explain your problems,delay in shipping, including running out of stock for 3 weeks,only having one person to program who is on vacation, ask him what he can do to improve his customer service? Tell hem Alpine Coach has very active forum on IRV 2 that has 2500 views only on this ONE THREAD naming his company and the problems we are having. Hopefully he would agree to make improvements.

If we can't get him give us better customer service, he knows we can always use social media now days, which a lot of companies do care about. Hopefully we would not have use social media.

If we can't we can't get John to help us, maybe then we could go to PH and ask them to find another distributor.
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Old 08-06-2016, 10:10 PM   #68
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I did find John's email address
jca@caelectronics.ca
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Old 08-07-2016, 02:17 PM   #69
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What about a large mass buy?

Ok, just a thought about getting a spare Vansco 2820. Would anybody be interested in talking with JCA and getting a deal if they got several orders ,mass buy, for a 2820 module? Sometimes a distributor will give a discount if they have a large order for a part. From what has transpired in this post anybody with a 2004 or newer Alpine would benefit from having a spare Vansco module in their possession, just in case. I would be willing to get one for peace of mind and not having to jump through hoops when one fails. I just don't like the idea of being stranded and at the mercy of a company in Canada that has some stupid requirements to order from them. I will be willing to present this to JCA and see if they would be interested in this proposition. I would need a head count of people that would be interested before I contact them.

Thanks
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Old 08-07-2016, 04:37 PM   #70
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