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Old 05-14-2011, 03:56 PM   #1
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2008 40 ft Alpine Limited SE

Ok....here goes! I own a 2007 Coachman Aurora FWS....have been around the country twice...love the lifetstyle.

Today, I found the coach of my dreams.....2008 Alpine Limited SE. After reading everything I could on the internet today....please let me know if this is a good deal. I am a single woman, and would hate to think I have been "swindled".....if you know what I mean.

This coach has been sitting on the lot since 2008.....sticker is high retail, $363,367. They offered me $150,000 for my coach ( seems very high, so I'm not sure what they're trying to pull)....then with about $10,000 down, I should be able to go to the bank for $180,000 includes taxes.

Does anything seem wrong with this deal?? I would really appreciate your advice . How should I approach this dealer (FL)....he really needs to get rid of this unit..........I feel if I said just the right thing he would go for it.....
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:24 PM   #2
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First welcome to the forum. Sounds like he is dealing from retail on a coach that is almost 4 years old, even if it is new and never been used. I would check the book value on the coach. Even if it is new, when you drive it off the lot, you are going to take a 4 year hit on the value of the coach. Most dealerships are taking 25 to 30% off retail of 2011 coaches and with the new models coming out the deals may even get better, especially with the cost of fuel right now.

If I were you I would keep looking or check the book value on the coach, subtract the $150K he offered for your coach from book value and then make him an offer. You might also want to make sure you can find a bank with a good rate to loan you the balance on the coach.

If the dealership really wants to move this coach, which I am sure they are they will deal with you, if not walk away, I am sure you can find your dream coach at another location.

Keep us posted.
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:51 PM   #3
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You should be able to get more than 50% off on a 4 year old coach even if it is still new. So the difference between what ever your coach is really worth as a trade (what they offered is probably high) and 40 to 50% of the list price is what you should offer. Don't let your emotions get in your way. Get someone to help.
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Old 05-14-2011, 08:55 PM   #4
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I sure do hate "horse trading"--so far the advice offered you is all good. Figure 4 years ago the dealer's cost was about $260k[70% of list]. After 4 years on the lot, maybe 2/3s of that, so maybe $180 to $190k. Many higher end 2007/2008 coaches are going for only 1/2 of original sales price these days. Dont know your coach's blue book but lets assume the dealer was way high on yours to entice you to his--get the blue book on both then see where you are with the numbers--my guess is this is not a deal. Opinions will vary but nothing good can come from a coach setting on a lot for the last 4 years. In this case very low miles is not necessarily a good thing--think I would walk on this one and this dealer. Plenty of late model, well-cared for coaches on the market these days.
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:38 PM   #5
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For a coach that has been sitting on a dealer's lot for 4 years, many of the components are likely to need routine service, significant service or even replacement:

1. Batteries - replacement
2. Tires - replacement
3. Cummins Onan GenSet - significant maintenance or replacement, unless it has been exercised monthly (see this forum for comments)
4. Roof Air Conditioners - maintenance
5. Cummins ISL 400 engine - maintenance
6. Allison transmission - maintenance
7. Steering gear bracket - reinforcement (see this forum)
8. HWH hydraulics - verify all are functioning and no leaks (see this forum)
9. If it has HydroHot - maintenance
10. Brakes - check brake line over the rear differential for any rubbing/chafing issues and for possible replacement if it is made of copper (see this forum).

The dealer should absorb the cost for all of these items to make the coach ready to use. Additionally, any problems revealed by using the pre-delivery checklists shown below, should be paid for by the dealer, and subtracted from any negotiated price, to correct them.

Check the Alpine Coach Association Technical Library web site for two very good pre-delivery checklists to use:

http://www.alpinecoachassociation.com/moretech/PDI.pdf
http://www.alpinecoachassociation.co...eCheckList.pdf

Have the dealer pay for a multi-year extended warranty with a reputable company, and subtract that from the negotiated price.

Old Scout's estimate of dealer's cost of 70% off MSRP sounds about right to me, based on what I calculated on my 2006 coach in April 2006.

At that time, I received a 23.7% discount off MSRP. So, after a coach has sat on a dealer's lot for 4 years, you should get at least double my discount for a 4 year old coach, giving about 50% off. That would put the price of that 2008 Alpine Coach at about $181,684. If I understand it right, the dealer is pricing it at $230,000 before taxes. That sounds about $50,000 too high. It seems he is only discounting it by 36.3%, which is way too low of a discount for a 4 year old coach from a manufacturer that is out of business, thus no warranty.

The original warranty was:

1. 3 years or 36,000 miles limited warranty on the Peak Chassis
2. 5 years or 36,000 miles limited warranty on body construction

Rather than telling the dealer that you don't like his offer and letting him make the next move, I suggest that you state your best offer in writing that you feel comfortable with, including whatever conditions you require (such as suggested in my note and the other posts above). Then the ball is in his court to respond. If his counter offer is way off base, then tell the dealer that you are done negotiating.
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:54 PM   #6
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I'd say this deal is overpriced by at least $60K

I don't know about the trade in stuff....but by what I see, the coach is worth $125 at beast...tires & batteries add $5K...warranty add $3500..total $138-140 TOPS

here is an example
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

05 Alpine Coach 400HP 40' 4Sld 31k King Bed VIDEO TOUR! - eBay (item 260780827936 end time May-14-11 12:00:00 PDT)
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:32 AM   #7
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I purchased a new 2007 Apex in Jan 2010. I tried for about 6 months to trade in my 2000 Alpine and I could not get a good deal from any dealer across the US. Finally I made a cash offer for the new one and sold mine on Craigslist no problem. I put a good price on mine to move it and sold it a week before Christmas. I got it for $277,000 off list and paid $152,800. I wouldn't do the fuzzy math with a trade. You should be able to get it for about 160,000 at most and still sell yours. If you are the first titled owner, you get a 5 year warranty from Cummins, 2 years on the Onan Gen, and 2 years on the Allison. I did put in new batteries and serviced it. I chose not to get the extended warranty and took care of the other problems myself. I am happy with it.

Good luck
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Old 05-15-2011, 09:14 AM   #8
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See rvsearch.com for additional comparison pricing for later model year Alpine Coaches:

RVSearch.com Find an RV Results for
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale777 View Post
See rvsearch.com for additional comparison pricing for later model year Alpine Coaches:

RVSearch.com Find an RV Results for
While this website documents what sellers are "ASKING" for their vehicles, it does NOT document what they are "SELLING" or more importantly "NOT SELLING" for.

I have been following on line sales of Alpine coaches for the last three years, and my research has found that a Top-of-the-Line Alpine Coach in "9.0+" condition, rarely "sells" for more than $100K. There are many "no-sales" in the $100K range, however many sales at prices of $50-90K.

I don't write this to say what any particular coach is "worth", as that is an agreement between buyer and seller, but what I do say is that from following sales on e-bay..
  1. Most sellers do NOT get what they believe their property is worth (many, many, no-sales)
  2. Buyers that do buy, buy UNDER $100K....

The class A market is in and has been in "The Toilet" for over 2 years now, and with diesel prices going over $4/gal it is not going to get better any time soon.

The fact that "orphans" have no manufacturer support also affects sale pricing (although we Alpiners know that doesn't make a real difference)
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Old 05-15-2011, 01:30 PM   #10
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I agree that the fuzzy trade-in math is nuts, and the deal overpriced. You'll want to get the coach for somewhere in the 180's or better.

You'll want to factor about a $700 discount for steering bracket upgrade, and at least 2/3 (probably more like 3/4) of the price of 6 new tires (they always need replacement for age, regardless of mileage).

Aftermarket warranty is a good idea. Make sure the policy covers everything w/out exclusion for the OEM warranty period (we found many policies excluded the OEM period, 3 years in this case, when the factory went under). The Cummins & Allison warranties, and many of the component warranties are likely good from the "sold new" date (Xantrex inverter, fridge, A/C's, Onan, HWH, furnace, etc.). This provides some value above a straight used coach whose warranties are all run out. The aftermarket policy should cover any other OEM stuff like plumbing & electrical snafu's that need fixing, and there will be some (any new rolling house comes w/birth defects).

The Alpine drives like a dream, and was built in a period where the factory was doing pretty well QC-wise. Find out the serial# (last 5 of the VIN#) and post that along w/a list of the features per the OEM retail sticker to get some additional feedback on those specifics.
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Old 05-15-2011, 05:07 PM   #11
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A dealer in Florida offered us a "new" 2009 40MDTS for $150k plus our trade. They were asking $225k but I don't think our coach is worth $75k. Still too much for us I'm afraid.
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Old 05-15-2011, 06:12 PM   #12
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In July of '09 I purchased a new 36' Mid Door from a reputable dealer in NC. The MSRP was $343,000+ and it was purchased for $170,000. I believe many of these late model coaches were purchased by dealers at great discount either from the factory or finance companies with inventory from failed dealers. Be very careful of this dealer. I think he saw you coming from far away. Good luck.
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:34 AM   #13
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Another example of the "hole" in the Alpine market

06 40' Alpine Apex Diesel Pusher 4SLDS 400HP 21,698 Mi - eBay (item 110686634306 end time May-16-11 12:41:16 PDT)

I'll wager a cold one that this beautiful coach does not bid over $110K (my first thought was $100 but I went up a bit) , and that it will not meet reserve.....

What I mean to say is that the seller wants $110+ and buyers just will not go that high in todays market....

I have researched EVERY e-bay Alpine auction for the last 5 years (bought mine on ebay in March 09)....And that is my prediction.
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Old 05-17-2011, 12:57 PM   #14
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Aside from all the great advice above. Check NADA.com for the current value. Keep in mind the company "WRV" is out of business. There is no factory warranty, so that reduces the value. It's reatail value is way over inflated in the current market. He is cutting your value on your coach's value and selling you that coach at almost new retale. Go back to him, take 30% off the low retail price on the above link, that is what the coach is really worth. Then he is going to give you less on your coach. You need to know those values going into the deal so you don't get taken. Make sure you play hard ball otherwise you are presently paying too much for the current deal.
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