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Old 09-28-2018, 11:22 PM   #15
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So Alpine’s have a fiberglass roof, if you keep it up, clean and wax it periodically you should have a great roof. Yes there are penetrations in the fiberglass but if they leak they can be fixed. Putting a rubber membrane over it there will still be the same penetrations. Fix the problem don’t add more.
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Old 09-30-2018, 03:39 PM   #16
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Mo-
The fuse was undersized at 250A, should have been 300A. Usually you'll find them in dual rating for voltage (not all fuses are), and sometimes the DC rating is 20% or so less, you have to check the mfgr's data table.


Your AC side calc wouldn't apply to the DC circuit between batt's & inverter, strictly DC there. If the fuse is correct, the output of the inverter should control for draw. Micro is on the inverter as is the fridge and most of the outlets (not the one by the passenger's chair). So you can overload the inverter but would likely overload the respective outlet circuit first & trip a breaker (my wife has tried, never blew that fuse, always a breaker). Fridge should only draw 5A worst case, maybe a micro spike to start compressor but that shouldn't affect a proper fuse. Toaster plus coffee maker plus hair drying appliances, then nuke a leftover for breakfast- that'll send you looking for the breaker panel.


Higher amp fuses cost less than lower amp at same wattage because of the lower volts required. (That was a joke)



Welcome to the Alpine Family, you'll find lots of friendly advice here on iRV2 and at ACA rallies where you'll meet your Tech Support buddies.
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Old 09-30-2018, 11:40 PM   #17
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Hello again, Doc!
So Alpine’s have a fiberglass roof, if you keep it up, clean and wax it periodically you should have a great roof.

Yes there are penetrations in the fiberglass but if they leak they can be fixed. Putting a rubber membrane over it there will still be the same penetrations.

Too bad the previous owner had that done...even worse that the honyok who did it stripped the clear coat first and didn't restrict the cleaner just to the area he painted with the rubber, leaving the remaining paint near the edge of the roof cap unprotected..the previous owner (original) told me this was done by a service company at one of the Alpine rallies in AZ which implies that this company is considered reputable by the community. I find that more than a bit disturbing!

Fix the problem don’t add more.
My philosophy as well!
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:51 AM   #18
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@ Engineer Mike
WOW...a message from the best...Thanks!!
The fuse was undersized at 250A, should have been 300A. Usually you'll find them in dual rating for voltage (not all fuses are), and sometimes the DC rating is 20% or so less, you have to check the mfgr's data table.
The one that blew was a BUSS T-TRON JJN-250 amp Class T (fast acting) rated for 300 VAC/160 VDC. The mfr calls for a 400 amp slo-blow (which is a different form factor and won't fit in the existing bolt-in location). I've ordered up both an exact replacement for the one that blew (250 amp) AND a 400 amp of the same fast-acting type (has the same bolt pattern) which is closer to what the mfr specifies.

My experience is mainly with AC power (construction) and national code would say 125-150% of max rated load for fuse sizing (depending on the load types and except for motors, which can have massive inrush on starting) meaning my 2800 watt inverter (233 amps @ 12 volts) should be fused between 290 & 350. Given that this is not an AC application, which of the 2 fuses I have on hand do you think might be best to use?

Your AC side calc wouldn't apply to the DC circuit between batt's & inverter, strictly DC there. If the fuse is correct, the output of the inverter should control for draw.
Hmmm...of course you are right that the AC side SHOULD be managed by the inverter through the breaker panel and there were NO tripped breakers - however - IF there were an adequate number of loads on the inverter-supplied circuits (all operating within their permissible amperages), what would prevent that total system load from blowing the DC side fuse?


Micro is on the inverter as is the fridge and most of the outlets (not the one by the passenger's chair). So you can overload the inverter but would likely overload the respective outlet circuit first & trip a breaker (my wife has tried, never blew that fuse, always a breaker). Fridge should only draw 5A worst case, maybe a micro spike to start compressor but that shouldn't affect a proper fuse. Toaster plus coffee maker plus hair drying appliances, then nuke a leftover for breakfast- that'll send you looking for the breaker panel.
So, here's the thing: the fuse blew while we were enroute on our maiden voyage...DOA when we arrived at the campground...WTH???
I'm still uncertain (and haven't yet torn things apart to see) which loads are supplied when on inverter power: only a limited group or the entire AC system? Going to have to figure that out, I guess!

Bottom line is: if the inverter isn't connected so that it could potentially supply loads adequate to exceed the 250 amp fuse limiting it's input, then I still have the problem of trying to figure out why that fuse blew even though there doesn't appear to be a short in the wiring between the battery bank and the inverter which seems to me the only other explanation.


Higher amp fuses cost less than lower amp at same wattage because of the lower volts required. (That was a joke)
Good one...makes me think of ol' W.C. Fields' "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle 'em with BS"...lol


Welcome to the Alpine Family, you'll find lots of friendly advice here on iRV2 and at ACA rallies where you'll meet your Tech Support buddies.
I'm looking forward to all the help I can get...like the Ol-RVer on this forum insisted, I'm (apparently) going to need it...I say, "Bring it on!!"
Thanks!
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Old 10-01-2018, 02:34 PM   #19
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Upon review

@ Engineer Mike:
So, I finally got inside the rig to do some further investigation and - of course - you are correct: the inverter is NOT connected to any house loads (like AC's) which could blow that fuse w/o likely first tripping a breaker as you suggested in the quote below.

Your AC side calc wouldn't apply to the DC circuit between batt's & inverter, strictly DC there. If the fuse is correct, the output of the inverter should control for draw.

So, I am back to square one: what blew that darn fuse while we were traveling?!

For that answer, the first place I would look is for a short in the battery connections BEYOND the fuse (en-route to the inverter) OR an internal failure in the inverter itself.
Do you agree?


I am uncertain just how the cabling runs between the batteries and the inverter however. For example, are the Disconnect & Emergency Crossover switches and connective cabling ahead of or between the battery banks and the inverter?


Beyond those possibilities, do you have any other ideas as to a possible cause for an in-transit inverter fuse failure?

There is also a "weird-looking" fuse below the inverter fuse related to the house bank of batt's whose function is an enigma to me.
What do you know about that one?


As a status update clarifying how things are configured at present:
1) the inverter fuse is still removed,
2) the rig is running on shore power,
3) on the inverter side of the fuse connection, I am reading 14.2 volts which implies:
a) the charger function of the inverter is unaffected/working
b) there is no cabling short between the charger/inverter and the fuse.

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Old 10-01-2018, 02:46 PM   #20
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Lightbulb

@ Engineer Mike & Janet and
Todd

PS -I have investigated the panel closet and - in fact - the vestiges of a solar charger are still there: 4 wires connected to a terminal strip and disappearing into a void inside the toilet-room cabinet.
I am tending toward the possibility that those lines were never properly safed off when the solar panel was removed and the roof sealed with that ugly rubber paint.
Does anyone know just how that wiring is configured (e.g. could it cause a short which would have blown my inverter fuse) ?


[/QUOTE]The Apex does have a 100 watt solar panel on the roof.
That's curious because ours definitely does not have the solar setup...Hmmm...the previous owner (original purchaser) told us he had had a roof leak which he got "cured" at an Alpine rally (at Quartzite, if I remember right) by having a roll-on roof painted over the whole top of the coach...I'm wondering if maybe the leak was where the solar panel was mounted/cables entered and the honyok re-roof guy didn't safe them off adequately when he cut them and stuffed them back down inside WHICH could be why my fuse blew inexplicably.

Wouldn't that be "special"...removed the solar system, rolled white rubber over the gorgeous paint job AND set up for an intermittent short in the whole electrical system ALL just to fix a minor leak...I HOPE that isn't what's going on![/QUOTE]
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:34 AM   #21
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We are currently negotiating to buy a 2006 Apex. Ownership history is available and the coach seems to have been maintained on a regular basis. Not our 1st DP - but would be our 1st Alpine. Are there any problematic areas that I should make sure to inspect prior to purchase? Clearly they have a lot of Whiz Bang gadgets - but if/when they break, how difficult is it to find parts and/or someone to install them. Greatly appreciate any feedback and help. Thanks.
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:08 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryfaith Mo View Post
@ Engineer Mike & Janet and
Todd

PS -I have investigated the panel closet and - in fact - the vestiges of a solar charger are still there: 4 wires connected to a terminal strip and disappearing into a void inside the toilet-room cabinet.
I am tending toward the possibility that those lines were never properly safed off when the solar panel was removed and the roof sealed with that ugly rubber paint.
Does anyone know just how that wiring is configured (e.g. could it cause a short which would have blown my inverter fuse) ?

The Apex does have a 100 watt solar panel on the roof.
That's curious because ours definitely does not have the solar setup...Hmmm...the previous owner (original purchaser) told us he had had a roof leak which he got "cured" at an Alpine rally (at Quartzite, if I remember right) by having a roll-on roof painted over the whole top of the coach...I'm wondering if maybe the leak was where the solar panel was mounted/cables entered and the honyok re-roof guy didn't safe them off adequately when he cut them and stuffed them back down inside WHICH could be why my fuse blew inexplicably.

Wouldn't that be "special"...removed the solar system, rolled white rubber over the gorgeous paint job AND set up for an intermittent short in the whole electrical system ALL just to fix a minor leak...I HOPE that isn't what's going on![/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

On the back wall of the battery bay (on mine) is a 12 volt fuse block. The legend should be there too. Locate the fuse for the solar panel and remove it.

Others have located this fuse block in the tank bay (to the right of the battery bay).
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Old 10-08-2018, 01:59 AM   #23
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@ Bob & Kat
Hi There!
Quote:
We are currently negotiating to buy a 2006 Apex. Ownership history is available and the coach seems to have been maintained on a regular basis. Not our 1st DP - but would be our 1st Alpine.

I am amazed that you are going from a 2017 to a 2006...we were upgrading from a '96 Gulfstream 29' w/no slides...a no-brainer (other than the $$)
Alpines are great but wth???

Are there any problematic areas that I should make sure to inspect prior to purchase?

People talk about the steering brackets & some years had issues with the radiators. Ours had a history of inverter failures with the stock Xantrex 2000 watt so the previous owner (original) ultimately had it replaced with a 2800 watt Magnum. Otheres here probably can give you more/better advice since we are new to this like you are!

Clearly they have a lot of Whiz Bang gadgets
Boy, howdy. Do they ever!

- but if/when they break, how difficult is it to find parts and/or someone to install them.

My first call before we bought ours was to the SilverLeaf folks...I was totally impressed...we talked fo probably an hour and the rep showed no signs of trying to get ff the line with me, offered a full inspection plus a one-on-one introduction to the rig's SilverLeaf systems AND said that ALL that would be FREE and the hourly rate of less than $100 would only begin if I forced him to pull out his tools. But it got even more comforting when I learned that they are pretty familiar with ALL the systems on the APEX particularly since their unit monitors or controls most of those AND he would work on those too. He went on to mention that there are precious few APEX's on the road and asked which one (whose) we were buying...I gave him the owners' names and he knew the exact rig...set me up with a user-ship on the SilverLeaf tech website right then & there. I was AMAZED!

Fortunately, we are relatively close to their offices being that we are on the "left coast" and I will definitely be heading there as soon as I get our rig "stabilized"...not sure how that will work out for you living on the "right side" but I'd give them a call...maybe they'll need a vacation from the Oregon rain!

Greatly appreciate any feedback and help. Thanks.
Best of luck!

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Old 10-08-2018, 02:07 AM   #24
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@ Janet & Todd


Quote:
On the back wall of the battery bay (on mine) is a 12 volt fuse block. The legend should be there too. Locate the fuse for the solar panel and remove it.

Others have located this fuse block in the tank bay (to the right of the battery bay).
OK, found it...figured I will disconnect/safe off solar system wires in the panel enclosure too...SO disappointing the original owner had all that removed.


THANKS!
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Old 10-08-2018, 07:19 AM   #25
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SilverLeaf and Apex

To MaryFaith; we loved our Discovery LXE but had to sell it because the payments were killing us. With the Alpine - we can just buy it and be done. Thanks a bunch for your insight. I was concerned about if the SilverLeaf system fails - then what? I assume they no longer make this unit. Interesting, though, is that I have a SilverLeaf VMS 640 that I took out of my last coach before I sold it. But I am not sure how it would fit in the Apex since it is 8" high by 12" wide.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:49 AM   #26
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Payments, UGH!

@ Bob & Kat
QUOTE=bobkatgifts;4439759]To MaryFaith; we loved our Discovery LXE but had to sell it because the payments were killing us. With the Alpine - we can just buy it and be done.

A good feeling for sure!

Thanks a bunch for your insight. I was concerned about if the SilverLeaf system fails - then what? I assume they no longer make this unit.

Apparently, that is sort of true...the only part the guy I talked to said was totally unavailable now is the monitor itself which I find peculiar, you would think almost any screen could be adapted to display the processed data...he said they either rebuild them (if the monitor is good) or upgrade to a split system that separates the house & running gear BUT that method does lose some functionality.

Interesting, though, is that I have a SilverLeaf VMS 640 that I took out of my last coach before I sold it. But I am not sure how it would fit in the Apex since it is 8" high by 12" wide.[/QUOTE]
I'd give them a call...
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