Baffling Electrical Problem

[Oregon Coyote]

First, thanks to everyone that have responded in an effort to solve this.

There are two circuit breaker panels in the bathroom. The bottom larger panel seems just fine. But the black smaller panel above it is totally dead. That panel has four breakers labeled INVERTER, GENERAL PURPOSE, CONVECTION OVEN, and GENERAL PURPOSE. I guess this explains why the oven quit at the same time as the outlets. Unlike the larger lower panel that uses one MAIN breaker for the incoming juice, the wires for the upper panel are difficult if not impossible to trace and I cannot tell where the juice comes into that panel.

As far as I can see, there are no breakers or switches on the inverter. Will be in Portland Tue/Wed so will get back to this problem on Thur. Thanks again.

Norm

[Dirtbuster]

Check the 2 inverter breakers. If I turn mine off while in storage, my TV nor microwave ckt will work. It will also affect the GF ckt's.

Good Luck!

[Renipladlo]

Ok - I am going to chime in. First as suggested check breaker on inverter, check breaker on Genset, although this should not be an issue, but you never know.

GFCI - RV's ones are cheap, change to residential type, (may require new box in wall and new cover) and if provided with hole for conductor (maintain polarity) push conductor into hole if provided, otherwise screw then down good. Residential type have real good spring loaded clips to hold conductor so it won't pull out with typical road vibration. (see Mac the fire dude website for comments on RV recepticle quality - it's very poor).

As suggested, wires might be short, and have vibrated lose, which is causing the problem. I would do this with coach 120V power shut off, and disconnected, inverter off, not inverting (if set to inverter it will work even with master switches off) to preclude you finding the problem and shocking yourself. The older we get the less resistant we get to electrical shocks, bad for the old ticker as they say.

You could have a bad breaker in the panel, but your description does not lend itself to that scenario.

If changing the GFCI unit, check continuity on the circuit that GFCI is on from breaker panel to receptacle. The GFCI in question (one with the reset button is master on the circuit) and it could be bad that is why you need a known good one.

Hope this helps.

[takepride]

If I understand your problem correctly, verify that power is leaving the "inverter" circuit breaker in the big sub-panel. Then see if it is arriving at the "inverter" circuit breaker in the smaller panel.

If it doesn't leave the big sub-panel, that circuit breaker is tripped or bad.

If it doesn't arrive at the small sub-panel, it is being interrupted at the actual inverter. Try resetting that or check for blown fuse there.

You are correct, a GFIC will not reset without power. You can still trip it, just not reset it.

The flow of power in your set up is:

1. Power comes into the big subpanel via the generator or shore line.
2. Power goes out through a circuit breaker labeled "Inverter" and goes to the inverter.
3. Power goes out from the inverter, using power from the above sources or the batteries and sends it to the small subpanel.
4. Power goes through the circuit breaker in the small subpanel and goes to the various circuits.

Since you seem to have lost all inverted power, I'd guess an interruption at the big subpanel or the inverter, with power never arriving in the small subpanel.

Lastly, when my 300 amp fuse in the battery compartment blew last year, my inverter was knocked offline and killed all the inverted circuits.

[Renipladlo]

TP - what killed that 300 amp fuse? How much does a replacement cost? and would it be helpful to carry one for a spare?

Sent you a PM.

[EngineerMike]

Normie- The route for feed to the inverter panel is:
1) incoming 240V from pedestal or gen
2) main transfer switch
3) lower panel
4) out thru inverter breaker of lower panel to inverter
5) inverter transfer switch (sends 120V back to coach either from #1 source above, or from inverting battery power to 120V)
6) into 30A brkr on small black panel to power micro, galley vanity, etc.
In other words, the Inverter brkr on that smaller panel is the "main" breaker for that panel, w/120V coming in thru that brkr and then out to the other circuits on the panel.

so in addition to TP's suggestions above, a blown transfer switch in the inverter would explain no 120V where you have none.

[Oregon Coyote]

That is great info TP & EM. Since the INVERTER breaker in the lower panel is outbound hot and the upper INVERTER breaker is dead, it is starting to look like the 300A fuse is blown. When I get back to the coach I will check that first thing.

While I am in Portland do you have a description of that fuse so that I can pick one up here just in case or would an elec distributor know exactly what I have? 300amps are beyond my pay scale.

Thanks once again,
Norm

[takepride]

That fuse was about $53 at the electrical supply store, up to about $85 through RV places. I bought mine at an electrical supply wholesaler. I now have two spares. They are Bussman JJN-300 12 volt 300 amp Class T fuses.

One blew a couple years ago when Cal Pacific Cummins was working on it. They claim ignorance. I hardily grant them that.....

The second time it blew I was using a high amp drill plugged into the bin outlet. Not sure how/if that caused it.

Here are a few, about $34 on eBay:

Class T Fuse 300 Amp | eBay



Blue Sea - 300 Amp Class T Fuse 5119 | eBay

[Oregon Coyote]

FYI: There is only one breaker (fuse ??) on the inverter, and it is not tripped. Xantrex repair shop says if the upper panel's INVERTER breaker is dead, the lower panel's INVERTER breaker is hot, and the little pop-out fuse is still recessed, the most likely culprit is that a relay inside the inverter has blown out. Cost $340 plus R&R time and how much of a rush one is in.

Thanks everyone,
Norm

[Renipladlo]

Well you now have choice of wheather to repair it, with all the shipping, or replace it with a magnum unit. The magnum unit is on site repariable because it's modular in nature. Once you fix the Xantrex, you now have an inveter which has new parts, but yet is still 12 years old. I would think about replaceing with a magnum one, and spend the money.

[Oregon Coyote]

Temporarily, I am going to bypass the inverter and feed the circuits in the upper panel directly from the lower panel. But a new puzzle has arisen. Doing that also disconnects the charging system-- which was not working anyway since the original problem arose.

I have tried to connect my battery charger to the house batteries using various configurations including both 6v and 12 v settings and hooking to various batteries. The only method that will charge the house batteries is to start the coach engine. Anyone know how to hook up a regular charger to the house batteries??

Norm

[Schrimscher]

I echo Jimmy and Tom's post regarding the breakers on the inverter. One of those tripped on my Dip and drove me nuts until I found it. Usually we check all the obvious breakers and miss the one down on the inverter. I put a note in the owners manual for the next owner. Would like to hear what you finally find out.

[Oregon Coyote]

Thanks to Schrimscher and the others who have mentioned checking inverter breakers. Unfortunately, I do not see any breakers on the Model 458 inverter/charger. There is a small pop-out fuse-- which is not tripped-- but no breakers. At this point, I do not see any alternative to Xantrex repair's diagnosis of a blown internal relay.

Norm

[Theberrys]

I went to the Xantrex site and downloaded this picture of the Model 458 Unit.
Dick