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Old 09-11-2016, 07:50 AM   #43
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Good explanation Jim, guess I was picking around the edges at what you got to in a couple of paragraphs. If I may, two questions: First--what if any impact do you think the combination of solar panels "plus-ing" up the 13-volt tipping point and any phantom draws that might subtract from it? And second--the fact that despite being a heavy duty, continuous use solenoid, so many late model [Vansco] owners have had issues with this solenoid over the years?
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Old 09-11-2016, 10:06 AM   #44
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These solenoids work hard and are abused. Yes there are plenty of them that fail. However, starter motors use a solenoid to power them and there are plenty of starter problems.

These solenoids can become intermittent and drive even a technician bonkers. Everyone understands that changing fuel and oil filters is necessary and good. Perhaps changing that pesky solenoid every couple of years would be a good thing. I keep a spare and have replaced and rebuilt mine twice before.

My solenoid now only works as the boost relay so it is highly unlikely I will need to change it again.
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Old 09-11-2016, 11:44 AM   #45
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Since this thread is discussing solenoids and you may be asking "What's the difference between an intermittent duty and a continuous duty solenoid?" or "How do I test a solenoid?", here is an excellent reference document that answers those questions.

Solenoid Circuts & Testing.pdf
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Old 09-11-2016, 11:52 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbowers View Post
Since this thread is discussing solenoids and you may be asking "What's the difference between an intermittent duty and a continuous duty solenoid?" or "How do I test a solenoid?", here is an excellent reference document that answers those questions.



Attachment 138658

Bob, check the link, it does not seem to be working.
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Old 09-11-2016, 03:52 PM   #47
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Dave, both links download the pdf file for me (original & your quoted text). I uploaded it using the paper clip (Manage Attachments) so I'm not sure what else to do. Here's another try ...

Solenoid Circuts & Testing.pdf
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Old 09-11-2016, 04:40 PM   #48
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The solar panels will cause the cycling to last for a longer time unless they are strong enough to keep the batteries above 13 volts.

The cycling on the Alpine is what causes the solenoid to fail so often. The more a coach sits without a charging source the more likely the solenoid will go bad.

The Vansco logic should have a long time delay for both on and off to reduce the cycling.

I used a magnum battery combiner instead of the Eco charger because it is bidirectional and adjustable. It also can be used to activate the solenoid instead of the Vansco. This eliminated the cycling.
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Old 09-11-2016, 06:24 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbowers View Post
Dave, both links download the pdf file for me (original & your quoted text). I uploaded it using the paper clip (Manage Attachments) so I'm not sure what else to do. Here's another try ...



Attachment 138679

Bob, maybe it is my iPad, I can see it in the quoted post, but still can not open the originals.
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:03 PM   #50
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Yes, was able to open the 3 page document on my lap top, so the link works.
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Old 09-11-2016, 10:36 PM   #51
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Must be something with the iPad. Thanks.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:09 PM   #52
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Update: Took off the old "battery boost relay" and bench tested it. Although it would "clack" when powered up it had no continuity. Low and behold it said Trombetta on it so I ordered the exact same thing for 50 bucks and it all works like a charm now. The Vasco is cycling the Trombetta as I believe it should and now when plugged into shore power my chassis batteries are getting charged.


I took off the echo charger which was just a bandage to charge chassis batteries because the Trombetta was broke. I am a new owner so I just assumed the echo charger was an OEM thing. Nice to have my system working correctly now.


Now that the Trombetta is working, when I drive home from three days of dry camping the engine alternator not only charges my chassis batteries, but also the house batteries.


A lot was learned from this and a couple good take aways are:


1) When you hit the battery boost button on the dash Vasco #15 should light up letting you know that the signal got to the Vasco. If #19 was not lit up, it should now, at which time Trombetta should switch.


2) When watching the Vasco #19 light for cycling as a state of charge, discharge, charging, power, etc, It takes sometimes 10 minutes for the Vasco to make up its mind and turn #19 on and off as it sees fit.


3) just because the relay (Trombetta in my case) makes a "clunk" does not mean it is working.


4) Unless the relay is working properly neither set of batteries will charge properly.


5) It is normal for the Trombetta to be hot to the touch almost all the time.
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Old 09-18-2016, 03:15 PM   #53
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Jim Munsil's explanations in posts 39 & 40 herein are correct for the logic and operation of the charge solenoid for bi-directional charging and Boost function.

House & Chassis batteries are connected to the rear VMM thru lower left connector, red wires, to pins 18 (house) and 19 (chassis), the red wires originate at studs on the panel at back of battery compartment.

My solar panel kicks up charge voltage to the house to above the 13.0V threshold which kicks solenoid ON which draws voltage down to match batteries which kicks solenoid OFF which allows solar to kick voltage up & solenoid ON...etc. I get a similar problem from my AGM batteries for a while since they float at 13.1V and my non-AGM starter batts float at 12.7-12.8, which cycling happens when we stop for the night and dry camp. So I installed a key-fob operated remote relay switch, N.C., so I can disconnect it (click it to Open) from the bedroom and get some sleep. I use it every night in Quartzsite.

Terry- if the boost switch (after your "tinkering" per above suggestions) still doesn't light output LED#19 at the rear VMM and connect the battery banks, check rear VMM input LED#15 while a pretty able bodied assistant pushes the boost switch. The boost switch is supposed to ground the input on rear VMM left hand upper connector pin3 (pins are numbered on the connector) which invokes the over-ride for output LED19 to connect the battery banks. Could be bad switch, bad ground connection from the switch (black wire labeled 4435 grounds at ground stud on front firewall below and left of front VMM), could be pin3 input is burned out inside the rear VMM, could be the ground input wire is broken between the dash switch and the rear VMM.

If its a bad VMM input circuit inside rear VMM that defeats the Boost function, you could rig a bypass by putting a diode inline on output19 that appears to be still working for voltage connection of battery banks (output wire is on lower right connector on rear VMM pin27 which sends 12V out to solenoid coil) and tap between diode and solenoid with a new 12V source controlled by grounding a new relay thru the snipped off upper left pin3 wire. Mark the relay BattBoost so folks know in the future.
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