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Old 07-31-2009, 11:17 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Old Rv'er View Post
.......but I'm real tired of working on this thing more than I'm able to use it. Wish I had never seen this MH, not that I have had as much trouble as many of you, but every time I read this forum, I find out something else which makes me not sleep at night. ........ but after reading this one I'm ready to rid myself of it ........The BH half has been ready for a while now.

While I may be rationalizing my decision to buy an Alpine, from what I read on the other forums, ours are not unusual circumstances in DP's...Locked brakes, delaminating walls, electrical snafus, etc....
here's an example .. Sidewall cracks in '07 45' Mth Aire

IT seems that as financial trouble loomed WRV started taking "shortcuts" to stay alive (thinner brackets, copper lines, etc) I wonder wheter or not the 08 & 09 Monaco products will suffer the same fate...
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:14 PM   #30
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:45 AM   #31
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Yeah, and someone told me that he was parked next to a Country Coach, and his neighbor, the CC owner was ready to cliff the thing. The BH thinks we are stuck, and I keep telling her, honey you are going to have problems with any vehicle that goes down the road and weights 33K pounds. But copper Brake lines, could anyone be more stupid. Did they just let the workers make their own decisions when building these things?
On a normal trip, at least one period while out, I take my handy screwdriver/wrenches and check the screws/bolts around the thing. I need to crawl under it now for sure, guess next time its home. Wish I had a shop to just work on it all the time I feel like it.
I guess I'm better today, but copper brake lines; this really should be a NHTSA notice. Since I don't know if I have them or not, I will wait until I can check and then fill out a request.
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Old 08-01-2009, 07:07 PM   #32
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Monty and Janet,

I’m just as frustrated as you with this whole affair. I really don’t care whether WRV added brake lines at the main plant or wherever. Basically it all comes down to the lack of quality control throughout the company; and in the case of the steering box fiasco, poor design engineering. I keep asking myself, “What is the final threshold of inconvenience and financial pain that would force us out of the Alpine?” I really don’t know. We love the coach and we hate the coach. We’ve owned it 30 months and it has “vacationed” at various repair facilities for 10 months. I don’t know, is a 2/3 period time of possession good or not? I really don’t want to begin adding up all the repair invoices. They started with getting stung for over $4000 in warranty work that WRV did not reimburse when they went belly-up; it has gone downhill from there. So far this year it appears we’ll easily top $10,000 in repair bills; and that is with an extended maintenance service contract.

As I mentioned in another post, while the fantastic folks at R.V. Specialists, here in San Diego, were under the coach discovering my copper brake line they did even more sleuthing. Incidentally, you may remember, the reason it went to the shop in the first place was for a radiator R & R. Anyhow, they decided to go over this vehicle with a fine tooth comb and that’s when they discovered a rear brake line rubbing on an air bag. I’m keeping my fingers crossed there won’t be any more major surprises. Mark Cooley, the owner, believes that this is one more major safety issue that all Alpine owners should be made aware of. When he gets these two items removed I’ll take some pictures and get them to the “Forum.” Apparently there is a bracket near the flex line that could have/should have had a clamp to isolate the line from the air bag – it will have when it’s reinstalled. By the way, there apparently was no part number on the line and no way to find who made it; so it will be remanufactured locally. Apparently both the line and bag had worn through to the cord and failure of both was imminent. It is surprising with all the maintenance that has been performed on this coach, including the WRV 15,000 mile inspection items performed at 10,000; that no one would have discovered the problem of the line and bag rubbing. Mark and his technician said the two items are somewhat difficult to see and they could understand how they might be overlooked.

One last item relating to all the problems with this particular Alpine is the absolutely pathetic support that I have received from American Guardian and their USA Travel Care Service Agreement. Soon I’ll do a complete, separate, topic here in the “Forum” to provide our members with the horror stories involved with this company – it’s not pretty.
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Old 08-01-2009, 10:44 PM   #33
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Well some bad news to add to the already bad news. See www.clarkhoward.com he talks about one warranty company which you don’t own, but all should be aware. We did not purchase that company, we purchased another one, but they would not take the alpine since it did not have a warranty any longer. We decided to put the money in the bank and hope for a miracle.
At any rate, I am going to retire and spend some of that money on taking the RV Certification Training for 10 weeks to learn how to fix this thing, because we will never be rid of it, with what we have invested in it, so I need to know how to repair it. To many systems and thingies, gismos, etc that I don't understand.
Personally I want to join in on the class action suit against the Old Company Officers of WRV so they have to cough up some of those millions into a fund to fix the safety issues anyway.
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:17 AM   #34
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First.. I thank you for posting this and hope all others with your make of motor home take the time to inspect their brake lines

Second.. Dewy, Cheatum, & Howe.. Attornies at law (ok fictional firm, 3-stooges get the credit for this one) but you get the idea.

As I'm sure you understand, that copper pipe treatened your life.
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:17 PM   #35
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My coach, #75780, has the transverse (over the rear axle) line in copper or some other non-magnetic line (mine seems a bit hard to be Cu water line). It also has a hard bend at the PS fastener to the differential, from which it has a 5" straight piece cantilevered to meet the flex line going to RR brake. The short right-angle metal line on the LR looks like steel and seems like its magnetic (its real short, in the space between steel fittings and steel hold down clamp in the middle I might be getting attraction from fittings, but the line color looks steel and it is well supported).

I'm going to replace the transverse over-axle line because of that hard bend; doesn't matter if its Cu or "cunifer." With a hard bend at the point where it will deflect from axle/spring modulation, even steel would be suspect over time.

For DIY'ers, this is a pretty simple fix other than access to crawl under the coach; I don't pack much excess girth and the working room is tight for me on a creeper so I'll hafta go to a pad only for the extra 1.5" clearance. This is a good use for wood blocks under the rear wheels for some xtra dancing room. IIRC, local parts houses (NAPA, etc.) will fab up a steel brake line given the pattern. I should be able to take the old one off & give it to NAPA to replicate as to length, bends, and ends. When I install the new one, I'll add some support for the cantilever somehow. Maybe tie the free end to a shim zip tied off the axle so it can't flex @ the hard bend. In fact I'll probably do that as a temp fix for our Guaranty Rally in Harrisburg, OR coming up next week, since the rest of the line looks tied down good and tight.

After opening the brake line, I will have introduced an air bubble of some size into the brake hydraulics. I'm due for a full brake bleed, so I'll use OemTech's Gravity Brake Bleeding method; see #7 on the list. This is a one man job, takes about an hour cuz gravity is almost as slow as health care reform (thank God!). If you have a buddy, Oemy also gives instructions on 2 man methods including using the aux pump on the HydroMax for pressure bleeding. If you only open the RR brake line, or both rears, you would only need to bleed those; if you have been more than 18 months since last brake bleed, I recommend replacing all fluid in the reservoir & bleeding all 4 corners per the instructions since you are due for new fluid (that's what I'll do).
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Old 08-04-2009, 05:08 PM   #36
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Hi Mike,

I think you are right on with your observation (I quote you) "I'm going to replace the transverse over-axle line because of that hard bend; doesn't matter if its Cu or "cunifer." With a hard bend at the point where it will deflect from axle/spring modulation, even steel would be suspect over time" I felt that while driving back from Colorado to San Diego, California we experienced very rough roads and there was considerable "porpoiseing" (you call it axle/spring modulation) that may have lead to this breakage? I think you are dead on in your write-up! I would only add that STEEL BRAKE LINE is a must in this application to minimize this type of failure. As always, "Thanks" for your thoughtful input and observations.

Bob
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Old 08-04-2009, 06:06 PM   #37
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Bob- I've been looking closer at this, and I think the cantilever needs better support regardless of the line material. Its just one of those things that is easy to do and resolves a potentially hair raising condition. I need to spend some more quality time under the coach, but two easy fixes come to mind:
1) a cantilevered support off the differential bolts (right now a single bolt holds a sheet metal tab/clip at the point of cantilever, so the brake line is self-supported for the extension),
2) bend the steel line to conform to the axle on the PS same as on the DS, then add a support by the fitting going to flex line.
Without studying it for a bit, I can't say if there is a good reason for the cantilevered extension (maybe the flex line is too short or would rub on something else?).

At least on mine I don't have any bag rubbing, so I don't need Airbag Balm.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:04 PM   #38
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Mike and Bob,
Great discussion on the copper/conifer brake line issue. Of course I too, as I’ve previously written, have a “non-steel” brake line over the differential. I also have the problem of a rear brake flex line and air bag rubbing each other down to the cord on both; but that’s another story for another time. “Work in progress,” as they say. However, you just might want to check your flex lines and air bags, just in case. I appreciate the sleuthing you’ve done, Mike, in looking at and diagnosing the sharp and unsupported bend area on your line. Is that pretty much what you found on yours Bob? From your pictures it’s rather hard to tell just what kind of bend you had at the separation area. I’m planning on going out to my shop tomorrow and try to get some pictures of just what my line looks like. It’s also interesting that we too had just returned to San Diego from Colorado; apparently just a bit before you did Bob. We went via Albuquerque and I-40; I’ll have to agree there are some rough spots but during our two month trip we had encountered much, much worse. It’s kinda scary to think that my “non-steel” line might have failed on some of those roads up around Leadville.

Here’s something else to ponder, the WRV production numbers involved in this “mystery” line. Milo, aka sdcyclist, here in San Diego has an ’06 with build number 75549 and has a steel brake line. His number is 60 prior to our 75609. Bob, you have 75734, 125 build numbers after ours; and of course have a copper line. Now, we have you, Mike, with number 75786 and a “non-steel” line. It’s beginning to appear as though I just might have one of the first builds with “non-steel.” It sure would be nice to hear from the other owners, all 177 of them between you and me, Mike. Obviously more coaches were produced after your 2008; so there could be even more of us with a “non-steel,” unsupported line, with too sharp a bend radius.

I sent an e-mail to Mark Harrah two weeks ago asking if he had any information as to whether, and if so why, WRV had used copper/conifer brake lines in lieu of the standard steel. I re-sent the mail a couple days ago and have had no response.
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:14 PM   #39
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Hey Guys,

My break was at the "hard bend/kink" and Mike's observation, again, is dead-on. I now believe "axel/spring modulation" as outlined by Mike, accounts for my brake line failure. Copper cannot be subjected to constant "flexing" without failure/breaking at some point.

Bob
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:30 PM   #40
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There weren't a lot of coaches after mine. 09 is the last model year, and there weren't a gob of coaches made before the factory augured in.
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Old 08-05-2009, 09:16 PM   #41
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My Alpine Coach (#75646) has a non-steel brake line over the differential, as evidenced by the copper color and non-magnetism.

Today, I left the coach at Buddy Gregg Motorhomes to have this non-steel line replaced with a steel line and to have all other brake lines checked for copper versus steel and any potential rubbing. When I checked the brake line over the differential, I also noticed that the fitting at the end of the non-steel line had been rubbing on the shock absorber casing. So, at least two different potentially serious problems.

I highly recommend that all Alpine Coach owners, with VIN numbers ending anywhere near the vicinity of those reported on this forum, check their brake lines immediately!!!
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:24 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythplaced View Post
While I may be rationalizing my decision to buy an Alpine, from what I read on the other forums, ours are not unusual circumstances in DP's...Locked brakes, delaminating walls, electrical snafus, etc....
here's an example .. Sidewall cracks in '07 45' Mth Aire

IT seems that as financial trouble loomed WRV started taking "shortcuts" to stay alive (thinner brackets, copper lines, etc) I wonder wheter or not the 08 & 09 Monaco products will suffer the same fate...
It seems so.......

Trailing Arms Cracked on Roadmaster

Now Monaco/HR/Safari, joins the list.....

Seems the moral of the story is....

"NEVER buy a vehicle (MoHo or otherwise) from a mfg in financial trouble....." UNLESS you are PREPARED for the inevitable consequences.

Seems these "people" take our money and accept no responsibility for their actions..I just get so angry at this..
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