Community Forums

Paul "Sully" Sullivan · 08-24-2009, 12:32 PM

Just checked my rear brake lines and found copper. Our Vin is 75619 and fits with other #'s w/the same problem. Currently in Helena Mt. and looking for a shop that can handle repair.

Sully

EngineerMike · 08-24-2009, 04:07 PM

Here is what I decided to do. My line has a hard kink in it, and I temporarily supported the cantilevered end with a 1/2" wood dowel for a trip of about 1,000 miles. I need to replace the line because of the kink.

I'll replace it with a steel line, same length, & flare fittings @ both ends. That leaves the cantilever, w/the flex line tugging on it to some extent. To support the 5 or 6" cantilever I will bundle the last 18" or so of the new line w/3 strands of galvanized steel #9 wire & tie wraps each 2 or 3". The #9 wire can be conformed to the shape of the tubing easily enough, but is pretty stiff itself. W/3 strands zipped down tight to the tubing, it should be downright hard to move. I think the Adel fittings will accommodate the 3 strands plus the tubing; if not I'll hafta get next size up Adel's. That leaves the flex line right where WRV put it initially, which looks like as good an alignment to me as any.

One thing about WRV's original chassis work- they used good fasteners. The bolts I encountered ferreting out this issue are almost universally Grade 8, with crimp type (all steel, not nylock) thread lock design so they don't back out under vibration.

Audrey & John · 09-05-2009, 08:45 AM

Left Rear and Differential

I checked our brake lines and found the left rear flex line rubbing on a shock absorber. The flex line has a flat spot but has not rubbed through the outer rubber layer. This side has almost no steel line beyond the support which causes the flex line to come in contact with the shock absorber. The steel line is a short 90 degree bended piece. I'm not a brake line expert but it seems to me that the problem could be solved by one or more of the following:

Reverse the steel line so that the long end is directed toward the brake
Put a sleeve on the flex line and let the sleeve rub
Fabricate a longer length of steel line to replace this one
Attach some kind of restraint from the flex line to the axle

What would be the preferred way to prevent the flex line from rubbing?

Right Rear

The right rear steel line side extends maybe too much beyond the supports on either end of the line as others have reported. The other end of the right rear steel line can be seen on top of the differential in the second photo from the top.

John

EngineerMike · 09-06-2009, 04:45 PM

John- I have a front flex line that rubs. I'm going to tie it back so it doesn't. Simple & quick. You can check ea. end to see if you can minimize the free span to correct rubbing, or tie the center back away from the rub. I'd put a piece of split loom or Xtreme tape over the tie so it won't become its own rub nuisance.

Renipladlo · 09-09-2009, 11:11 AM

All, inspected rear brake lines this morning (9-9-09). I have the copper type material, the VIN is 75715. I used a magnet from a SCSI hard drive which are very powerful, no adhesion with the brake line, but getting it off the differential was almost more than I could accomplish, so the brake lines are not made of steel.

I am not sure whom to have fix and replace the lines, the lines also extend out past the bracket about two inches. I have a great break repair shop I use for the cars, but there is no way the MH would be able to get into his shop. If it's really copper, do we have any grounds to get repair money from Monamoy?

Tried to lubricate the fittings in the Rear end and ran out of Grease, so it’s off to the parts store for more grease.

Also need a 6” drop receiver so the toad is in the correct height range that is a little higher than 1” above which is in the specifications according to the Aventa LX Manual from Blue Ox. Headed out to the parts store, I would offer to pick up stuff for the rest of you but getting it to you would be hard. Ha, HA.

Renipladlo · 09-10-2009, 12:59 AM

All ended up with a 4" drop for the Aventa LX tow bar. I'm at 2" of the requried 4" max specification so I am happy with that. However, the 7 pin connector does not have any juice, so need to find the fuse box. Going to do a search on this forum know it's been discussed before.

Wayne R · 09-22-2009, 07:51 AM

I finally crawled under mine to lube the U-joints and checked the brake line over the differential. I found the clamp in the picture not attached to the tab on differential. After attaching the clamp the line seems to be very well supported. Is this the area of concern?

EngineerMike · 09-22-2009, 09:13 AM

Yep.

Lindenberg · 09-22-2009, 10:34 AM

I checked the rear brake lines on my 2000 and found they are run differently than the newer models. There are two rubber hoses coming from fittings mounted on the chassis frame down to each end of the axle. From here they connect to short a piece of metal tubing that appears to be well supported. Next they are back to rubber to the brake caliper. It also looked like there were two separate lines running from rear of the motorhome up to the front. Do, or did, Alpines have separate sections to the master cylinder so if you loose pressure for one brake the other continue to work?

dgerstel · 09-23-2009, 05:49 PM

Tom,

The later coaches don't have any back-up like you mention, and I don't think that the earlier do either. The brake line from each wheel goes to the Anti-lock device, which on mine is behind the water tank on the ceiling of the basement.

Renipladlo · 09-24-2009, 02:49 PM

All I just got off the phone with Cummins Coach Care in Coburg, OR. The service writer went and found the brake technician, and the brake tech, stated, they have seen a lot of the alpines with the copper lines, and have not seen any issues regarding that material. However, I asked him if we both could take a look under there and see about shorting the area out past where the supports are to minimize vibration and shock to those line ends. He said that would be fine, and if the line needs to be shortened so the transition fitting is closer to the support bracket we can do that. I am going to print out this thread and give it to him so he and the brake guy can read and digest all said herein. I will post my answers once I have taken the coach in which won't happen till the 1st of October.

Renipladlo · 10-03-2009, 02:06 AM

All, after spending 2.5 days in Coburg, OR at Cummins Coach Care, and being informed that additional parts needed to be procured for the Copper Brake Line replacement; we got a ride home from the Brother-in-law unit.

The Service manager brought out the copper line, and it appeared that one end was flared/crimped and one end was a compression fitting. He did not like the copper, or the compression fitting assembly, so they are replacing the whole line and ends. They will move the supports out to the end of the new stainless line (he showed it to me) to support it better, and they have/will inspect for rubbing at all wheels prior to bleeding the system. I am totally impressed with the level of customer service I am receiving, and the professional way the techs interact with the customers. I highly recommend this repair facility for any of our coaches needing any type of repair. I am hoping the steering bracket stiffening parts can also be installed here later in the month when we take it back for the remainder of the HWH problems that are awaiting parts from HWH.

Now, I am past mad as Hexx about this problem, even though WRV is out of business, there must be something we can do as financial recourse to recoup the amount of money we will all spend (either real money or time we take to replace/repair/bleed the system) to make these coaches safe. My first step will be to take pictures of the offending part, research on DOT’s website to determine if unsafe practices have occurred, and then write a letter to Monomoy. If no recourse is forthcoming, or they take the “blow me off” approach, I am prepared to file legal documents in small claims court against them. My wish is I hit the lottery, so I can get good legal talent and sue the pants, shirt, and unmentionables off the former owner’s managers, and financial partners. But, since I heard “duck” when they were handing out the “luck part”, I’m not counting on that. As many can tell, I’m hot, it’s like in the olden days, they stole my horse, and I want it back if you know what I mean.

Now, while we were there in Coburg, we were not the only people having MH problems, one couple has been sitting there for 14 days and counting because of a Hydraulic hose failure and the stripping out of some screws which are threaded into the ram, which necessitates the part needing to be re-manufactured by HWH and shipped up to CCC for replacement. His bedroom slide would not go in, without the part. So, even as frustrated as he must feel, not to mention his wife unit (she is most likely so mad, she won’t even come into the waiting area), we did not have it as bad as things could be. To say this individual should be mad, would be the norm, but us RV’ers have a positive side to life I must say, because a nicer person could not be found, such a gentleman friendly, and informative about the area, just trying to enjoy his predicament with a good attitude.

And I will say it again, I have never met Rv’ing folks I did not like, as we all seem to have a level of comradeship and empathy no other group of folks share.

CCC in Coburg, Oregon are professionals and care about you the customer, and the facilities are very good, with about 12 water/power hookup sites in front of the building. A sewer dump is available but kept locked so people off the interstate don’t show up after hours and use it when not having service. I will use this repair facility for as much service work as I need to be done which I cannot perform myself once I know more about how to do it. It would be a good place to work, as the staff get along well with each other. They have a fair selection of RV supplies and accessories, although the prices are a little high, but, they stock them as a convenience, so that would be the case. They have a complete selection of Cummins and Onan parts; with about 50 or so Allison transmissions in a separate warehouse being it is a western parts center for them. The waiting room is nice, with water, coffee, and a TV available. I talked to several customers who make it a point to bring their coach to this facility because of the way they are treated and the level of competence of the service performed. On the first day, they were able to service my genset and fix my front air bag issue (air would not always be evacuated from them so leveling the coach was problematic). The second day was brake day, and it took them about 3.5-4.0 hours to remove the offending copper line and inform me additional parts were needed. They kept my coach hooked to power so refer would run while we were not there over the weekend. It’s also in the shop on jacks to support it while apart. They let us go out and get stuff we needed to take home with us, and kept me informed all the time what was going on.

Directly across the street is the Monaco Facilities, with at least 4 very large manufacturing plants gearing up with the new Navistar management. Currently there are about 100 employees currently bringing the facility up to slow speed, with additional staff being added when necessary. Hopefully, over the next few months our economy will improve so those individuals laid off can get their old jobs back and Monaco/Navistar will be successful in re-establishing that company as a quality RV builder.

The offsite food establishments are few and far between, and we sampled two of them, one the Travel Center of American Truck stop restaurant and the Coburg Inn. The food was very nice in both places, and the service was also good. For those interested the antiques stores are not very plentiful, but there are a few within walking distance (about two miles from CCC). Once person found the local farm which grows and sells their own produce and he remarked it was some of the best he has ever eaten. The town of Coburg has a brand new county RV park with about 25 spaces, several pull thru sties, and many capable of handling RV over 40’ with 50Amp service available. I personally did not see it, but several people remarked how nice it is. The rates are about $25 a night.

Across the main street is the Guarranty RV sales center which has about 300 mostly new and some used Diesel Pusher Motorhomes from several vendors. In the town of Junction City, they have the other dealership which sells the gas versions of Motorhomes. Although there is not a lot to do, there are enough facilities and things around to keep you entertained while having some work performed on your coach, if you are up around this part of the country. I don’t recommend making the trip any later than November 15th because the snow will start to accumulate in the mountains coming up from California and can be dangerous, but if you are in the area, a stop there would be recommended if you need anything done to the coach. You should call ahead for an appointment, make sure you and the person agree on the date of arrival, as my dates got mixed up, but they got me in early even though that happened.

I will report on the final assessment on the repair, and how my brakes feel once they have been flushed. I am hoping for a better pedal and sharper brakes especially at low speed without the noise of late. Sorry to be longwinded, but felt all would like to know about our experience at CCC.

mythplaced · 10-03-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renipladlo

........there must be something we can do as financial recourse to recoup the amount of money we will all spend ....... to make these coaches safe. ........

Not much hope in that...Don't hold your breath!

The NHTSA has limited power to enforce any actions agains a "ghost" manufacturer. They have taken ZERO action on the steering box, the broken trailing arms, and some other very prominent safety issues from manufacturers that no longer exist as a legal entity.

Talk to the other folks who have had their coach manufacturer go "belly-up"...(or those whose manufacturer has been "ressurected") (insert Jim's comments here)

There really is no "legal recourse" unless you take it to a personal liability suit, (and then you must prove that the person you are suing had direct knowledge of the potential for harm, and acted with negligence or malice and forethought)

The only sound financial strategy here is to purchase a good "service policy" or "bank" the money you will spend on these types of issues.

Renipladlo · 10-03-2009, 11:54 AM

Yeah, we are already doing some of that. Instead of an "extended warranty" I am going to go to RV Training School, which is totally dudictable. I have already gotten my state business license. Additionally, once I am through with that, I hope to take some hands one Hydro Hot training and maybe some HWH training to enhance what I learn in the 10 week course. If after that I cannot fix most of the stuff that goes wrong with it, then I'm getting to old. I then can put some of that training and the 20+ years of Rv'ing to work making a little extra money I hope. This should offset the pain we feel owning the "Amber money pit".