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Old 05-02-2010, 11:41 PM   #15
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Just follow up from the brake pedal on the arm to the top. At the top is a clevis pin with a cotter pin through one end. The brake light light switch is small black plastic switch about 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 inches with wires plugged into it. Unplug the wires. Remove the cotter pin pull the clevis pin out and the switch comes off. I just replaced mine and WRV used a Ford switch with a Ford number on it. You pick up at a Ford dealer, Napa, or Carquest is where I got mine. It is not hard to change, just look at the postion of the switch first.

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Old 05-03-2010, 01:38 AM   #16
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Jim:

On the 2003, the brake switch is under the coach at the end of the pedal arm going through the floor. You'll find it in the void space in front of the DS front wheel but behind the wall in the generator area. Plenty of room to sit up once you slide under.
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Old 05-03-2010, 08:31 AM   #17
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SInce you have the same year and symptoms as mine, I'd bet it's the brake switch problem. If so, I doubt cycling the switch will fix. If it was sticking, I'd think it would stick on.

With an 04, I'm thinking you have the adjustable pedals, which puts the brake switch on/near the brake pedal arm in the footwell area. You may have a cover velcro'd around your brake pedal, that needs to be removed to access your upper brake pedal area. Access if very tough. Slide the seat back and try pivoting it a little. Even with this, I was pretty contorted.

I now recall a steel pin and cotter pin about 6 inches up from the pedal at the pivot point. Removing this should allow access to a ~2" black plastic assemby with a wire plug (the switch), a common Ford product.

(kraig just posted a good discription, I edited, thanks!)

If you're determined to fix on the spot, a temporary fix would be to use one of the fuzzy stick-on pads on the back side of one of your cabinet doors, cut and fitted to the plunger (or cut and use a piece of velcro or maybe electrical tape layered).

You might consider getting it home first or to a shop, using your emergency blinkers or small light flasher on your steering wheel to signal use of your brakes/stopping, when needed. This might avoid a "Murphy event" during the disassembly of the brake pedal.

If you do drive it, either don't use the cruise control or be prepared to disengage it on the steering wheel to avoid another "Prius moment".
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:15 AM   #18
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Thanks all...that's all I could figure the brake light switch could be. (We DO have the adjustable pedals.) Still not certain what plunger you're talking about. There's a brake 'plunger' that goes into the firewall but that doesn't seem to be what you're describing--if i remove the switch as described will it be obvious where to install the Velcro pad as a temp fix til we get home or near a ford dealer?
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Old 05-03-2010, 04:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SusieBee View Post
Thanks all...that's all I could figure the brake light switch could be. (We DO have the adjustable pedals.) Still not certain what plunger you're talking about. There's a brake 'plunger' that goes into the firewall but that doesn't seem to be what you're describing--if i remove the switch as described will it be obvious where to install the Velcro pad as a temp fix til we get home or near a ford dealer?
No, it's not the rod with rubber covering going thru the firewall.
Yes, it should appear as a recessed area on the switch.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:03 PM   #20
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On the older coaches with the through the floor brake pedal the brake light switch can be seen in the attached pictures. The Switch I received for my replacement from WRV looks like a Cole Heresee M-608 and the one I installed on my 2001 also had a 5/8” Mounting Stem and was sealed.

Cole Hersee M-608 - Plasticized Marine Construction Momentary Switch • SPST • Normally Off

Off - Momentary On • On with button depressed, spring return to Off

Electrical Rating: 10 amps at 12 VDC.

No. M-608
Terminations: two 18 gauge wire leads, 12" (304.80mm) long.
Mounting stem: brass, 5⁄8"-32, 15⁄16" (23.81mm) long, fits panels through 1⁄2" (12.70mm) thick.
Sealing: plasticized body sealed against moisture and dirt, No. M-407-03 black moisture repellent rubber cap snaps over face nut.
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Old 05-04-2010, 10:10 AM   #21
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Sorry I provided the Wrong Part # for the Brake Light Switch.

The Correct information and Part #;

Cole Hersee No 90043-04 On-Off, normally On Off with button depressed, spring return to On.

Terminals: two blade, mate with 2 pole Packard connector #2977647 or equivalent.
Mounting stem: 5⁄8"-32 thread, 1 1/16" long.
Sealing: gasket seal in case, with plasticized body sealed against moisture and dirt and two 18 gauge plasticized wire leads 7" (177.80mm) long.
Cap: rubber, snaps into special groove and is secured to mounting stem by a deep threaded nut for positive seal.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:34 PM   #22
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Thanks. Got new switch at ford dealer. (plunger seems a lot stiffer than old switch) installed but still no brake lights. On Vansco panel (passenger dash) brake lt sw indicator does not light up. Yes. Installed sw correctly. Also tried to activate manually w engine running and depressing plunger. Does anyone else have a little black cube shaped box (sounds like a sw is clicking when brake lt sw is activated) betw sw on brake pedal and wires running to cruise control brake lights and, in our case I believe, our tow brake control?
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:19 PM   #23
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J&S- the small black box is probably a generic "Bosch" type relay (4 or 5 spade connections possible) installed for the tow brake control as an aftermarket device. These are cheap, under $10, available @ an NAPA, etc., takes a small amount of current from the brake light circuit for "signal" current telling it to switch on the tow brake circuit using a secondary source of 12V. But before replacing it, I'd start w/a volt meter to check whether there is 12V to the brake light switch (sounds like yes since you hear the click of the relay?). Then check the wire to the input side of the Vansco; this is getting signal I Vansco is working if the correct LED on Inputs lights up (on my 08 that's LED#24 on the left bank of lights, yours is earlier and may be a different #; do you have the schematic telling you which is Brake Light or Service Brake? There is one in the document cited below that may be your version). If there is voltage @ the wire input of the Vansco but not lighting the LED, then the problem is in the connection or else interior to the Vansco unit (I think you can disconnect the appropriate plug and use the voltmeter to check the respective pin for 12V when you depress the brake pedal). The wire/pin may not have the same numbered position on the left (input) side of the Vansco, as there are many more wire positions (and two plugs) than input LEDs. I made up a document posted to the ACA Tech Library with the wire positions as they correspond to LEDs which you'll find under Chassis & Brakes with a file name starting w/Vansco.... If you have signal voltage at the switch but not at the Vansco, there is a break in the wire between the two or within the connector @ Vansco. If the Vansco is receiving the voltage but the LED doesn't light, then the Vansco module needs repair.

FYI the input to the Front Vansco should also light the corresponding LED output on the rear Vansco which lights the brake lights (on mine that's Output LED#12, and if the ignition is Off then also LED 18 to power the Hydromax (brake master cylinder) relay). With the ignition Off you can check to see if you get two outputs on the rear Vansco when pressing brake pedal. If so the signal is being read by the front Vansco.

There are more permutations, but you can post the results of this series of investigations for more suggestions, or to boast on your fix.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:02 PM   #24
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Replaced relay. Still no brake lights. On vansco: position 4 says "brake sw (52)" -input. Not lighting up. Note also that cruise control cancel is not working either. (position 23 on vansco input side.) will start checking wires now.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:30 PM   #25
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Tested at relay module: white wire fr brake light sw to relay-test at blade=energized when brake NOT applied off when brake IS applied. At blade for tow brake: energized when brake IS applied off when no brake applied. There is a red wire looping across two blades and red coming from one of those blades running off to some other device (don't know where it goes). Both of those blades are also energized when brake is applied and off when no brake applied. Pardon typing-- on iPhone.
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SusieBee View Post
Tested at relay module: white wire fr brake light sw to relay-test at blade=energized when brake NOT applied off when brake IS applied. At blade for tow brake: energized when brake IS applied off when no brake applied. There is a red wire looping across two blades and red coming from one of those blades running off to some other device (don't know where it goes). Both of those blades are also energized when brake is applied and off when no brake applied. Pardon typing-- on iPhone.
IGNORE above -- the two blades where the reds are connected are ALWAYS energized, regardless of the brake position.
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:23 PM   #27
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Susie,

Where was the switch that you replaced and how many terminals did it have?
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:36 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by SusieBee View Post
IGNORE above -- the two blades where the reds are connected are ALWAYS energized, regardless of the brake position.
I have attached a wiring diagram of our configuration -- there is a relay installed after the brake light switch -- I believe to deliver a signal to the US Brake Control Module mounted on the dash (for tow vehicle braking). I am pretty sure this relay was installed by Holland Motors in San Diego because their initial installation of the US Brake system did not activate the tow vehicle brake.

Here is what we've done since noticing the brake lights and cruise control cancel were not working:

Replaced the brake light switch.
Test brake lights-FAIL
Replaced the relay.
Test brake lights-FAIL

(It may be obvious to you that we do the easy, though more expensive thing first, hoping the problem will go away.)

Referring now to the attached diagram, here is what I know:

When Brake NOT Applied:
  • The red wires are HOT.
  • The white wire from the switch to the relay and from the relay out are HOT, but the tester light is not as bright as it is for the red wires.
  • The orange wire from the relay to the US Brake Control Module is OFF.
When Brake IS Applied:
Note I tested at the relay terminals and not the actual wires when I was applying the brake.
  • The relay clicks.
  • Terminals C & D (red wires) remain HOT.
  • Terminal A (white wires) goes OFF.
  • Terminal B (orange wire) goes HOT.

Our coach has a Vansco power distribution system. From what I understand from postings on the forum this means we do not have a fuse for the brake lights/cruise control cancel circuit -- TRUE? If we DO have a fuse for this circuit, it is certainly not in an obvious place and we need assistance locating it.
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File Type: pdf brakelightwirediagram.pdf (141.9 KB, 62 views)
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