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Old 05-05-2010, 11:59 PM   #29
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Susie,

You still didn't say what you switch was like. It sounds like your relay is causing a problem with the Vansco. Try disconnecting the white wire from "A," but keep the 2 you show in the drawing, together. This takes the relay out of the brake light circuit. If that cures the problem, see my posting here. Brake Signal Connection
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:31 AM   #30
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I believe all Jims should have the same year coach. It makes discussion of coaches easier and the answers more cogent.

I see several instances of replies being appropriate for one Jim and off-base for another, topic-wandering not withstanding.
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:06 AM   #31
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Susie,

You still didn't say what you switch was like. It sounds like your relay is causing a problem with the Vansco. Try disconnecting the white wire from "A," but keep the 2 you show in the drawing, together. This takes the relay out of the brake light circuit. If that cures the problem, see my posting here. Brake Signal Connection
Thanks Dale. We will try your suggestions tomorrow. Our brake light switch is as you describe in your other posting: 5 positions - 2 used. I am attaching a new diagram showing how I interpreted your wiring description without the relay. Let me know if I got it correct. Before we do anything we will perform the test you describe above (taking the relay out and testing brake lights only).

Thanks again. Susiehttp://www.irv2.com/forums/images/smilies/banghead.gif
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File Type: pdf brakelightwirenorelay.pdf (59.5 KB, 54 views)
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:32 AM   #32
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Susie,

That is correct, with the unused connector above the orange wire (in drawing), or toward the front of the coach. Don't forget to reset the Vansco, after removing relay from brake circuit and before testing.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:57 AM   #33
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Susie,

That is correct, with the unused connector above the orange wire (in drawing), or toward the front of the coach. Don't forget to reset the Vansco, after removing relay from brake circuit and before testing.
Dale...To reset the Vansco system do I simply turn off the main battery switch (in battery compartment) or is there a reset switch I haven't found yet?

Thanks. Susie
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:22 AM   #34
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cycling the main battery switch for the chassis off/on will cycle or reboot the Vansco system. you will see the LEDs go all off, then all on (a test), then some will remain lit. You have now rebooted your friend Vansco.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:23 AM   #35
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Susie and John,

Here's something easy for you to check: If your cigarette lighter receptacle (also called a "12 volt Power Point") has no power, there IS a fuse in a panel in your battery compartment that may have blown. This fuse powers both the cigarette lighter AND the Cummins data ports (there are two, one in the battery compartment area and one in front of the passenger feet on the firewall and behind a removable [velcroed] kick panel). In the battery compartment, the fuse panel is inside a black box, about 12" x 12" with 4 wingnuts holding the cover on, mounted on the back wall.

I do not know if that fuse may have anything to do with your problem or not but that fuse box is worth checking if you didn't know about it.

At one point, WRV told me that turning off the Vansco would reset the cigarette lighter and Cummins data port but it took replacing the fuse!

Good luck!
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:26 AM   #36
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Susie,

Turn off the chassis batteries, from main switch (as you stated), for a few seconds and then turn back on.
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:14 AM   #37
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J&S- did you mention whether your brake lights were working previously?

FYI- on the relay, the A & C terminals are the coil, i.e. they are connected at all times internally unless the relay malfunctions via the coil.
When the coil has voltage & ground to one terminal and ground to the other, B-D are connected. It appears the relay is wired so the brake switch takes the white wire to ground, completing a circuit thru the coil, and connecting B-D.
When coil has no voltage or no ground (you can switch either the incoming positive or outgoing ground side to coil), B-E is connected, but this is inert on your setup w/out a connection to E.

The relay wiring looks pretty weird to me. Seems like the coil has two 12V connections, one of which gets grounded when pressing brake. Usually one side has 12V and one has ground, and one or the other has an on/off switch in line (like the brake switch). If you had a different voltage from one leg, white or red, the relay could trip activating the aux brake without the brake pedal involved. Not the best setup IMO.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:00 PM   #38
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Susie,

That is correct, with the unused connector above the orange wire (in drawing), or toward the front of the coach. Don't forget to reset the Vansco, after removing relay from brake circuit and before testing.
Dang. I disconnected the white wires from the relay (the white wires are still connected to each other), re-cycled the main battery, observed the Vansco LEDs to see the Vansco reset, turned on the ignition, tested the brake lights and NOTHING. There is no signal on the white wire at all whether the brake pedal is applied or not. (For info...black wire from the switch has no signal either.) Note that when I reconnect the white wires to the relay, it is hot coming in to and going out of the relay when the brake is NOT applied and off when the brake IS applied.

Question: taking the tow brake controller and relay out of the equation for now, if all things were working correctly, would proper operation be for the white wire to be HOT when brake NOT applied and off when brake is applied? In other words, is the loss of current used to energize the brake lights and cancel cruise control?

In case there is any significance -- the white wire, when connected to the relay, has a weaker signal (dimmer tester light) than any of the other wires.)

Thanks all. Susie
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:31 PM   #39
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Pretty sure the white is supposed to be hot and the brake switch connects it to the black ground wire completing the circuit and lighting the brake lights.

Maybe the peculiar relay wiring is because somebody screwed up the brake switch signal on original install of aux brake, and the toad has had brake lights from the aux brake setup but the coach brake lights have been out since aux brake went in?
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:57 PM   #40
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Pretty sure the white is supposed to be hot and the brake switch connects it to the black ground wire completing the circuit and lighting the brake lights.

Maybe the peculiar relay wiring is because somebody screwed up the brake switch signal on original install of aux brake, and the toad has had brake lights from the aux brake setup but the coach brake lights have been out since aux brake went in?
We test all lights every time before taking off, regardless of whether we have a tow vehicle or not and regardless of whether we have or have not unhooked the tow at an overnight stop. The brake lights on the rig AND the tow vehicle both were working. I remember when I first noticed the brake lights not working and John REALLY remembers the first time he noticed the cruise control did not disengage during braking. That said, however, when something like this happens, you start to doubt yourself and your memory. The relay was installed just a few months ago and we have only had the RV out for a fuel run and then this one short trip last week since then. Note at the time the relay was installed we had a few other electrical problems (beside the tow brake not working) that we had fixed -- one was the cigarette lighter had stopped working -- the fuse in the battery compartment had blown. From what you say, without the relay in the system (and disregarding operation of the tow brake controller), the white should always be hot...it is not hot, regardless of whether or not the brake is applied. If the white wire is always hot, and the brake switch is used to complete the circuit to the brake lights and cruise cancel, I'm confused -- does this mean the signal travels through the black ground wire when you apply the brake???? (But, remember, my white wire is never hot when disconnected from the relay). P.S. How does power get TO the brake light switch? I guess I should say I'm TOTALLY confused now. My ultimate goal is to hook up like Dale describes (without the relay) and have the brake lights, cruise control, and tow brake controller function properly; i.e., take the relay out of the system.

Thanks, maybe John and I will be able to pass remedial 12V Electricity when we are done here. Susie
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:31 PM   #41
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The brake light switch, on the Vansco coaches, grounds the wire to the Vansco when the brakes are applied. The relay will do what the installer wanted, 12 volts to the brake control when the brakes are applied. BUT with the relay in the circuit, 12 volts is fed into the Vansco thru the relay coil when the brakes are not being applied, this could cause damage to the Vansco module. To test the circuit, attach one wire from your meter or test light to a 12 vlot positive source. Using the other wire probe the 2 brake light switch wires. One (black) should show 12 volts or light the test light all the time and the other (white) just when the brakes are applied.
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:35 PM   #42
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Susie and John,

It is my impression that a negative 12 volt "signal" is what comes "out of" the brake light switch and goes to the Vansco unit. In other words, one side of the brake light switch is connected to ground and the other side becomes grounded when you step on the brake pedal.

The above has seemed pretty backward to me but, again, I think it is due to the Vansco system.

On the other hand, the US Gear Brake Controller wants to see a positive 12 volt "signal" as it's input to tell it that the brakes have been applied. That is the purpose of the relay circuit: to take a signal that is <minus> and convert it to a signal that is <plus> when you step on the brakes.

I've got the same 2004 coach, with the Vansco, and I installed the US Gear brakes which initially didn't work. I contacted WRV and they sent me a schematic to create the relay circuit and everything has worked properly for years.

Starting with the simple things, I agree that you ought to remove the wire that goes to the relay and get your coach brake lights working first without the relay circuit in the equation. Have you checked the brake light bulbs to insure that they are not blown?

Good luck!
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