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Old 05-06-2010, 05:46 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgerstel View Post
The brake light switch, on the Vansco coaches, grounds the wire to the Vansco when the brakes are applied. The relay will do what the installer wanted, 12 volts to the brake control when the brakes are applied. BUT with the relay in the circuit, 12 volts is fed into the Vansco thru the relay coil when the brakes are not being applied, this could cause damage to the Vansco module. To test the circuit, attach one wire from your meter or test light to a 12 vlot positive source. Using the other wire probe the 2 brake light switch wires. One (black) should show 12 volts or light the test light all the time and the other (white) just when the brakes are applied.
We performed the test Dale described (no relay in the system) and found we have a signal on the black wire at all times and a signal on the white wire only when the brake is applied just as expected. The LED (input position 4 on our Vansco) does NOT illuminate. Ive talked to Dale since this test and it looks like we will be driving the MoHo up to Holland Motors without brake lights.

Thank you all for your help. I will report back when we get the problem fixed just to close out this thread.

Susie
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:29 PM   #44
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And even though I still have numerous issues (like everyone else)

I am glad I don't have a vansco....

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Old 05-07-2010, 02:11 PM   #45
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We talked to a Vansco technician today. Here is the warning from page 5 of the Vansco Multiplex Module Users Guide:

WARNING: VMM INPUTS ARE NOT TO BE CONNECTED DIRECTLY TO
INDUCTIVE LOADS SUCH AS SOLENOID OR RELAY COILS WHICH CAN
PRODUCE HIGH VOLTAGE SPIKES. IF AN INPUT IS CONNECTED TO AN
INDUCTIVE LOAD, THEN A PROTECTIVE DIODE MUST BE USED TO
PREVENT DAMAGE TO THE VMM INPUT CIRCUIT.


The Vansco technician said that the VMM failure would not happen immediately, but that the voltage spikes (up to 600V) would eventually destroy the VMM input circuit.

Vansco informed us that WRV was provided with this information more than once. At this point, the only thing we can do is to have the VMM repaired (by sending it to Winnepeg!). We will be providing the VMM (and PDM) User Guides to Holland Motors when we discuss repairs and I will also attach these manuals to this posting (if I can figure out how to do that). If you need phone numbers or email addresses for Vansco, contact us through the private messaging system.

Vansco gets calls on this problem fairly often -- make sure your service technician knows how to protect the VMM. (You may even want to give him the User Guides.)

Again, thanks for all of your assistance through this.

Susie
Attached Files
File Type: pdf VMM2820 Hardware User Guide V1.5.pdf (692.5 KB, 37 views)
File Type: pdf PDM User Guide V1.11.pdf (591.5 KB, 43 views)
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:27 PM   #46
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Sooz- The Vansco module system as deployed on the Alpine coach is output constrained, i.e. they use up (at least by 2008) all the available outputs but not all available inputs. An alternative is to send the VMM to somebody who has the software & interface to do programming (might have to send both front & rear, the programmer should know) and switch the input signal to another input. On the program I used to make up the PDF on Vansco Schematic & Tech Info (ACA Tech Library under Chassis & Brakes), Inputs 24-28 are all marked "SPARE" so any of those would work. You would then have to move the input wire/pin from its current position (which is, for that VMM program, Input4 and therefore pin #4 on the 35 pin J1 plug on the upper left side of module; note that not all Input wire positions correspond the LED number, see that PDF doc for the schematics). Note that the programmer will need to read the existing program, determine which Input LED is Brake Switch or maybe called Service Brake, and notify you or your tech which input wire/pin is the existing signal wire and which wire/pin position to move it to, and therefore which LED you should then be seeing when you step on the brake.

I'm guessing based on the large number of folks who have taken a relay off the brake switch and not burned up the Vansco circuit, that a normally wired relay would not have burned out the Vansco circuit, i.e. if only the coil current were associated w/the input, as that is simply a static load energized when the switch is closed (and not very large; standard Bosch relay coils are 86Ω so ~0.2A). Because both the coil and load are energized off the red wire coming into the relay, the load side could easily have a spike each time the coil electromagnetically closed/opened the load contacts (arcing across the load contacts when making/breaking contact). Of course its better to follow the Vansco directions to install the diode, & of course it would be easier to follow a normal relay wiring plan and avoid the brain damage of tying to figure out the wacky setup but if I had to guess, I'd say you might have already concluded likewise.
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