Brakes revisited

[rmmpe]

That is truly a scary thought and I'm happy the Coach I'm buying doesn't exhibit those problems.

If it did, I wouldn't have closed the deal on it.

[dgerstel]

My findings in regard to the new brake system, on my new coach have been:

The brakes require more pressure than my 2002.

The pedal pressure required to come to a complete stop at low speeds is the most annoying difference.

The problem is much less when the pedals are all the way out towards me.

Stopping the coach does not seem to be a problem.

I have talked to owners of latter year coaches here at WRV that think the brake pedal pressure is just fine.

I will post any changes it my opinions as I drive the new coach more.

Dale

[rmmpe]

A darn good reply.

Engineer Mike and I have corresponded in some length privately and we, collectively, have not been able to isolate the purported problem to any single item/component.

Speaking for only myself, I am at a loss as to what, if any, problem may exist.

It pains me to admit this because, although I have been involved with hydraulic systems for a long time, I am out of answers/suggestions.

[Alpine Coach]

The safety of our customers in the vehicles we build is our #1 concern. As such we continually monitor customer feedback regarding items that relate to safety critical areas. Western RV recently received inquiries regarding brake pedal pressure on late model Alpine Coaches. As the safety of our customers is our top priority, be assured WRV takes all issues pertaining to customer safety and mandated standards very seriously. We invest significantly in the development of our vehicles and vehicle systems as we continuously strive to provide the best in class products and services for Alpine Coach customers.

The Alpine Coach braking system has been thoroughly tested and certified by an independent testing group and exceeds all requirements of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) 105 Hydraulic Brake Performance Test. For more information on the standards and testing procedure required for certification, please visit the following website:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w.../49cfr571.html


Regarding our system: The hydraulic braking system with 4-wheel ABS in the Alpine Coach is designed to provide a comfortable "automotive feel"� under normal driving conditions and provide an extra margin of safety in emergency situations.


In addition, the WRV engineering team has concluded that some owners may be experiencing a difference in the brake pedal "feel"�, caused by the change in geometry created by the hanging and adjustable pedal design versus the floor mounted pedal. This includes the difference in leg motion used to actuate the pedal. Again, we have reviewed the data and there is no performance issue with the braking capabilities of the Alpine Coach.

Should you have any further questions (or require technical or service support for your Alpine Coach) please contact Western RV directly on our toll free Customer Service line at (866) 567-4133.

[Stretch]

I am sick of all of this sh........discussion about brake pressure. I have an 03. I did have an 00, which was worse cause no Jake brake.
Its time WRV step up to the plate. Someone said this is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Well someone had to do it. I have directed my lawyer to contact WRV and get something started. We are messing with our lives here gentleman and gentlewomen. Time to act!!!!!!!!!!

PS Just kidding. I hate litigation. But something needs to wake the WRV folks up. Enginer Mike will attest hydraulics is just a function of leverage. This should be relativly easy to fix. Why dont we start putting pressure on the mfg of the brakes. They sold the system to WRV. Obviously they have had problems with the system. in 02 or 03 WRV opted for a change in the brake caliper. They bought and installed a larger system. That should tell us something. WRV knew the system they were specifying was not adequite. And neither is the present system. Come on WRV; tell us what to do the correct the problem!!!!
Like Sitting Bull said so long ago, "tht is all I have to say"

[Stretch]

Well, looks like WRV agreed with me. Enough is enough. They responded. WRV must have been writing a response while I was writing my broadside. I went to the referenced website. I have no ideal what it really said. A very long government diatribe.

Point is WE DO NOT FEEL THE BRAKES ARE STRONG ENOUGH. Got it WRV? How about looking into our concerns?

[Tom and Patty]

Just an example of how the distance from the pedal could make a big difference.

When I was in high school, wrestling, we worked our legs out on a weight machine. If I sat very close to the pedals of the machine, I could only press around 250 lbs. The angle was too great to get a lot of power. If I moved all the back I could press 440. IIRC.

In my car or Alpine, I always sit as far back as I can.

We however still have to find someone to do our Bosch recall. Maybe pedal pressure will change.

[OldForester]

I thought I would respond on this topic again after an 1800 mile trip the last 11 days through Idaho and Montana and back to Washington State, including a lot of mountain driving and driving in city traffic.

I can't find a problem with the brakes on our 06. The only time I find what I would consider to be a little extra pressure is when I'm stopped nose downhill at a stop light and the transmission is in drive, generating a lot of torque. Otherwise, I don't have a problem with the brakes, and I looked for it on this trip, including trying a few semi-panic stops.

Now my seat is lifted to the highest position and my pedal position is about 75% of the way closest to the seat, and I usually pump my brakes a few times before I start driving after i start the engine. Perhaps that makes a difference.

But from my point of view and our coach I have no issue with WRV on the brakes, and I looked for it on this last trip. I like the brakes, and it's one of the reasons I bought an Alpine instead of one with air brakes. So perhaps this is a coach-by-coach issue or a particular driver with a particular coach, rather than a universal issue?

Really, our brakes don't feel much different than they did on my previous GM pickups. So I don't think this is a universal issue, at least it isn't for me.

[rmmpe]

OldForester,
Aha!
The old "it depends on who's driving" ploy.

Actually, not having experience on other than a 1999 Alpine, I cannot offer a definitive comment on newer brake systems.

However, I will say that I find it difficult to believe a brake problem would be universal. Certainly the people at WRV are aware of how serious a Safety issue would be and have used "Due diligence" with the system; design and components.
In fact, they have made a statement that testing has been conducted by an independent testing facility, which would be part of a "Due diligence" process.

A high seat elevation would, in my mind, aid with the leverage applied to the brake pedal.

Coupling this with a comment made regarding applied-force abilities at various leg extensions may be a lead on how to position oneself to best use the brakes.

Personally, I prefer to sit as high as the seat will allow and have the seat positioned so I can have my legs at an approximate 60 degree angle when on the pedals.
Also, my opinion is that adjustable pedals allow too many variables and complicate the system. Simply put, we are all different and if it ain't there, it can't break.

I've seen the adjustable pedal assembly and it appears to be as sound as things like that can be. I have a similar system in my Navigator and have never used it other than to set it so the brakes are as far from me as possible. I go by the most comfortable position of my "arm to wheel" relationship. My legs can move around a lot more than can my arms.

As a side, Engineer Mike and I have discussed this at some length privately and neither of us has been able to determine if a real problem with the system exists (step in here Mike if I've presumed incorrectly).

[Buddy and Beverly]

We have an 06 and do not have a brake problem either. I (Beverly) am not a "strong" person , but I drive and do not have a problem. I do have to push down hard and have not had other Alpines to compare this one to. Buddy says our brakes are fine. We have had a couple panic stops since owning the motor home, and they "worked."

Beverly and Buddy

[Stretch]

See my recent post under Bendix/Bosch brakes. See if you think it may be part of the answer, at least, regarding excessive brake pedal pressure

[Ted III]

Beverly, I find it hard to believe as does Buddy that you are not a "strong" person! Beverly, it was nice that you let Buddy speak.

[bigfish]

With 20K + seat miles in our coach, have not noticed any of what I would consider a "brake problem". I set the pedals at a comfortable position originally and have not had to reset them since. The coach stops straight & true even with a few hard stops. Sitting at a stop light or in traffic requires no more "leg pressure" than my GMC pick up or the T&C van.
BTF
40FDQS

[rmmpe]

I was able to look at Ted's '05' Coach and see what I believe could be a contributing factor to the 'excessive' brake pedal pressure issue.

When the brake actuator is extended all the way out, it appears there may be some compromise to the leverage of the asssembly.

I suggest the pedal be retracted as far as it will go and the seat moved to a comfortable arm to wheel relationship. Move the seat up if necessary.

However, as I have not had the opportunity to drive a Coach with adjustable pedals, it is probably best that each Driver use the vehicle some distance with the pedals adjusted to both extremes in order to determine if the Driver can find a position suitable for more efficient brake pedal action.

Personally, I'm glad mine does not have adjustable pedals. Too many options make for indecision.

Or is this post just flogging a dead Horse?