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Old 06-27-2007, 08:22 PM   #43
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Ted III,

Just read this post today. Yes, Buddy had my permission to speak.

Beverly
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:41 PM   #44
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I ended up buying another brand of coach that also has front disc brakes and the pedal feel is nowhere near as hard as the Alpine was.

My new one feels like a dream compared to the 36' Alpine I was in. Plus it still stops in typical disc brake fashion with the typical short stops etc.

So I still say there is a problem that needs to be addresses. Freightliner is not having this issue for sure
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Old 06-28-2007, 04:10 AM   #45
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I think that Rotts4u somewhat confirmed that Alpine has a problem with their brakes. It may meet all the govt. or whatever standards but it does not seem to meet the owners of the coach standards. If you go to the 1st page the second comment was made by rotts4u that he had been testing different coaches in reference to brake pedal pressure. He obviously tested more than one other brand.
It is obvious how he resolved his situation.
Alpine, I believe it is your turn to correct this brake situation for your customers not other standards. The other standards do not but Motorcoaches.I for one expect a response and some type of correction that will be
satisfactory or I will certainly consider the other alternative. This is no type of a threat just a fact of life. Possibly it does not bother your companies opinion at all. Time will certainly tell. I can assure you that the brakes certainly concern me as an Alpine owner.
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:34 PM   #46
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Yes Ted I had driven perhaps 6 or more similar sied coaches BEFORE the Alpine then a few more afterward too. I ended up buying a 2008 Tiffin Phaeton 36 quad slide on a Freightliner XC raised rail chassis with the new 08 spec engine which is the Cummins 360 ISC.

As for the brakes the new XC Tiffin uses is not IFS but does have the disc front brakes and I am really happy with them. Effort required to stop is very low and yet the brakes are very strong. I live on a very steep hill and feel 100% in control easing down the hill or coming down a Mtn with the jake brake off.

I cant say it was the main reason that I ended up not buying an Alpine but it was one of them. The issues I see with Alpine overall are listed below. And those in total are what prevented me from risking my hard earned $$ to buy one.

Lack of dealers across the country.

Repetitive issues on things like hoses, brakes and other service issues that are not resolved or easily handled by owners.

Concern over warranty locations.

High MSRP compared to other similar coaches

Deep discounts seen on used units made me concerned over resale value.

The things I really liked are.
Attention to detail inside and out in construction and finish.
Chassis and 400 Cummins
Big tires and wheels that are oversized for vehicle.
Jimmy Doyle and Mike in Dalton, GA are good people but they cant salvage all these WRV issues in my opinion. The market needs an improved coach and better support from WRV
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:53 PM   #47
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Yesterday I talked to someone at the WRV service center about excessive brake pedal pressure. He seemed very knowledgable and did not hesitate to suggest a solution to my hard pedal problem. We have an 03 which has Arvin-Meritor Qualdraulic hydraulic foundation brakes with a Bosch Hydramax hydraulically boosted master cylinder. We have the type of pedal that goes down under the floor. The WRV rep says they are easy to adjust the pedal pressure. I said OK tell mey how. He said to go under the coach an locate the rod going into the master cyliner. I did. he says to just turn the adjustment on the rod to lengthen it. That would make the pedal eaiser to push. I have yet to do it. Will report back.
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:46 PM   #48
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Stretch, I will be interested in your adjustment of brake pressure. Monday, I was in Lincoln City,Oregon, going down a hill when the light turned yellow. I stopped, ok, but in the middle of the intersection!! This was a ticket-getting yellow if I hadn't at least tried. I have never stood on a brake like that. Scary. I guess it's lawyer talking time.
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Old 06-29-2007, 06:48 AM   #49
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Stretch,
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The WRV rep says they are easy to adjust the pedal pressure. I said OK tell mey how. He said to go under the coach an locate the rod going into the master cyliner. I did. he says to just turn the adjustment on the rod to lengthen it. That would make the pedal eaiser to push. I have yet to do it. Will report back. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is good info Stretch! This is why this forum works.
I would recommend anyone doing this adjustment reference the orginal position and count the number of turns you lenghten and do a thorough road test. There should be information on this adjustment somewhere on the net.
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Old 06-29-2007, 08:32 AM   #50
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Hello Stretch:

I would not suggest adjusting the rod going to the master cylinder from the peddle assembly because if you adjust it to much it may prevent the brakes from fully releasing and will apply constant pressure to the brakes after you remove your foot from the peddle and will cause them to overheat. I would suggest having someone who has experience in hydraulic brakes do the adjustment.
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Old 06-29-2007, 10:42 AM   #51
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I hardily agree with Dave. On my 2002 I tried adjusting the push rod to the master cylinder. It is crucial that there is some play so that the piston in the cylinder always comes to a complete return so that the pads can return fully and any pressure build up form heat expansion can be released to the fluid reservoir. This rod is also used to activate the electric safety backup power function and any incorrect adjustment can have dire consequences. I have done this adjustment on many vehicles with no problems, but found the one on the Alpine VERY sensitive. I also can see no way that this adjustment could have any effect on pedal pressure. The only coaches having "brake pedal pressure" problems are the later ones with the adjustable pedals.

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Old 06-29-2007, 01:54 PM   #52
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I would have to agree with dgerstel. IMO, adjusting pedal stroke won't do anything for the leverage or pressure exerted on the cylinder. I believe it will only change the position of the pedal to cylinder relationship distance-wise.

If it were me, I'd not take the chance of it.
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Old 06-29-2007, 06:31 PM   #53
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To all in this brake issue. I have a 2005 with the overhanging peddles that are adjustable. At what year did that start and don't we have to be terribly concerened with which brake style we are talking about. Lundy are yours not the same as mine with a 2006? Stretch are not yours sraight up from the floor with a 2003? I just want us all to be on the same page and with the same style brake pedals. Lundy, I am with you on your stopping issue. I have done everything but pull the steering wheel out of its whatever to get this coach to stop. Let's all get our situations correct, get together and make a concerted effort that is intelligent and to the best of our knowledge correct. Standing on your brakes with all your might and the best you can do is the middle of the street is pretty frightening. If WRV does not want to approach this then we all will have to do something.
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Old 06-30-2007, 03:46 AM   #54
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I agree with Ted. The information has to be compiled by the type of brakes (through the floor, hanging, hanging adjustable, model year, etc.).

It must be determined if this issue is symptomatic of a brake type or isolated to specific Coaches.

Also, information provided by someone who has driven the different brake types back to back would perhaps be of benefit.

Ted, As we live relatively close, maybe we could meet somewhere for a dinner and each of us drive the other's Coach for an immediate comparison.

As I have driven my Coach only twice, I have no real knowledge of the problem and can only say I didn't notice a braking issue with it. In fact, I was pretty impressed that a 15 ton brick would stop that well (it stopped a whole lot better than my previous Gas Class A).

I will be taking delivery of it Tueday and plan to drive it 2 or 3 hundred miles for a "Shakedown". Now that I've heard so much about this, I'll be paying particular attention to it.

Getting back to the compilation of information; it may be best if someone not convinced they have a problem be supplied the data so a spreadsheet by model year, etc. be developed.

It has been my experience that better information can be categorized by someone of a relatively ignorant and non-emotional mindset. Regarding the ignorance issue; I am supremely, if not over-qualified .

Should any of you wish to undertake this, send the information directly to me rather than clutter this forum. Make sure you include the VIN, type of Driving (Mountains, level, etc.) Model year, Model, type of brake (hanging, adjustable, etc.), any attempts at correction, if a Toad is normally present, it's weight, etc.

Assuming we all can open an MS Excel spreadsheet, I will periodically publish the data for those sending me their information.

If enough meaningful information can be garnered, WRV will find it more useful than independent isolated complaints.

Also, as everyone seems to have a great deal of respect for the opinions expressed by Engineer Mike, who I have been in contact with privately, perhaps he would agree to be involved with this as well.

Lastly, if we wish to do something like this, I believe it would be better to start a new thread dedicated to this topic in order to reduce the information to hard facts rather than the opinions expressed herein. Perhaps a title such as "Brake Data"?

I solicit your suggestions/comments/ridicule
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Old 06-30-2007, 06:48 AM   #55
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Bob, I think all of your suggestions are well founded. I will start a new thread as you suggested dedicated to the topic. Get in touch when you finish your test runs and we will get together. E Mike is definitely a neccasary evil.
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Old 06-30-2007, 07:05 AM   #56
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Ted,
I have sent Mike an E-mail asking his opinion.

Hey, who knows; the findings may turn out to be of some real value.
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