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Old 08-02-2006, 05:10 PM   #1
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On another thread, Rick M said: [the Apex]"CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity) was only 700+ lbs.!!! That means if you travel with 3 other slightly overweight people and NO cargo - You will be over the legal weight capacity of the coach..."

Even though I only weigh 202 and, unfortunately, will now be traveling alone (once probate closes and I finally have an Alpine something), I find it difficult to get very worked up or concerned about CCC. Some government bureaucrat who does not know asphalt from concrete writes some regulations having to do with the manufacture of cargo carrying vehicles, the manufacturer on the advice of their lawyers protects their b--- by overly conservative specs, then we the dumb peasants who buy said cargo carrying vehicles are supposed to lie awake at night worrying that if our really really fat cousin rides with us in our Alpine, the CCC Police are going to nail our b--- to the pavement-- whether asphalt or concrete.

In 70+ plus years of riding the highways and byways I have never even seen a CCC policeman. Does anyone out there agree with me that CCC is the very last thing we should be worrying about as we scurry about the country? Or should I leave the lights on at night just in case?

Usually Too Tired To Care, Norm
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:10 PM   #2
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On another thread, Rick M said: [the Apex]"CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity) was only 700+ lbs.!!! That means if you travel with 3 other slightly overweight people and NO cargo - You will be over the legal weight capacity of the coach..."

Even though I only weigh 202 and, unfortunately, will now be traveling alone (once probate closes and I finally have an Alpine something), I find it difficult to get very worked up or concerned about CCC. Some government bureaucrat who does not know asphalt from concrete writes some regulations having to do with the manufacture of cargo carrying vehicles, the manufacturer on the advice of their lawyers protects their b--- by overly conservative specs, then we the dumb peasants who buy said cargo carrying vehicles are supposed to lie awake at night worrying that if our really really fat cousin rides with us in our Alpine, the CCC Police are going to nail our b--- to the pavement-- whether asphalt or concrete.

In 70+ plus years of riding the highways and byways I have never even seen a CCC policeman. Does anyone out there agree with me that CCC is the very last thing we should be worrying about as we scurry about the country? Or should I leave the lights on at night just in case?

Usually Too Tired To Care, Norm
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Old 08-02-2006, 08:53 PM   #3
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I don't think the government polices CCC.

I think a chassis manufacturer (specifically the design of the axles) determines how much weight the axles can SAFELY carry. That determines the GVWR of the chassis, and CCC is derived from that after accounting for the weight of the house, add-ons, four passengers (616 pounds), full fuel, full water.

We determined that most fulltimers put at least 2000 pounds of their personal stuff in the motorhome, and sometimes 3000 pounds. So we decided that 3000 pounds of CCC was a requirement for our fulltiming motorhome.

Non-fulltimers probably won't need to put that much stuff in a MH - but I can't tell you how much they might use!

Based on weighing our coach, it looks like we added approx 2000 pounds of stuff to ours.

There is also the consideration of safely stopping a coach. Once a coach exceeds the GVWR it is considered overloaded. Many people are more concerned about being able to safely stop an overloaded coach than about the undue stress on a chassis. How much "leeway" the engineers have built in for overloading a chassis - who knows? All we know is that they publish the GVWR.

We are well under our GVWR and glad of it.

Audrey
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Old 08-03-2006, 05:39 AM   #4
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I guess I see this problem differently and I'll admit up front that I may not be correct in my assumptions.

I view the tags in RVs and the government's attempt to protect us from underhanded manufacturing tricks, not as a means for enforcement. Even as it is, some MHs were released from the factories with undersized tires that blew out it use. Consistently, the solution was that the owners upgraded the load ratings on those tires to try to correct the problem. I've weighed all 4 wheels on mine and have 2,000lbs of excess CCC but it is over the rear axle where I don't really have compartments that would allow me to take advantage of it. Knowing my CCC is helpful but knowing the axle limits is more helpful because I don't try to overload the front axle by placing things there.

What if I did? I know that my tires aren't the limiting factor in my front axle capacity. What is? While I expect there to be some safety margin in the axle rating, how would I know when I've exceeded it, too, and when something breaks as a result, will it gradually wear out over time or fail in some sort of catastropic way?

For a parallel discussion, let's suppose that I weigh 250lbs and bought a stepladder rated for 225lbs as many are. What happens when I climb on it? I should be on mine regarding any consequences. If the ladder breaks under me, I "should" have no leg to stand on with the ladder maker. More important to me, however, is the fact that it was ME who was injured and because I didn't want to spend the money for the heavier rated ladder next door to the one that I bought.

RVs are, as a whole, not targeted for the enforcement of anything except the normal traffic laws. I sure would not expect to meet a LEO interested in whether I was exceeding my CCC if I was. Just because the limits aren't enforced, however, doesn't mean that it is a good idea to ignore them. JMHO.
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Old 08-03-2006, 07:37 AM   #5
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Paying attention to axle limits is important. Not only to know you haven't overloaded either axle, but motorhomes are also usually designed for a certain front to rear axle ratio. At WRV they design for 40% of the weight on the front and 60% on the rear. Maintaining this ratio is important for the handling (drivability) of the coach.

You should weigh your coach to know how much weight you have on each axle. Any CAT scale at most truck stops can do this for you.

We saw a Columbia River bridge recently - it said 8.5 tons on each axle MAX. Our rear axle is rated for 10 tons (20,000 pounds). But we know from weighing our coach that we only have 8 tons on that axle, so we can use that bridge if we decide to go south on 97.

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Old 08-03-2006, 07:39 AM   #6
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Is there any rationality behind CCC ratings? Of course. Should we pay any attention to it when we fill a bay with those real pretty rocks we found in Utah? Of course. Should we lie awake at night worrying about the CCC on our coach after we had the window awnings installed?

If Rick M saw a new Apex with a CCC of 700#, then apparently WRV is not very worried about CCC. Almost a half-mil for an Apex and you can't even take Aunt Millie's china or your fat cousin with you.

Audrey. You haven't mentioned your route leaving Yakima but the trip over White Pass to the West of Yakima is awesome. Then you can drop down from Randle and look inside our Volcano.

Norm
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Old 08-10-2006, 05:55 PM   #7
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Every month or so, someone writes a disertation on why weight limits, tire loading or weight distribution really does not matter. There are many good reasons why you should not overload your tires, axles or various other parts of your vehicle. Every manufacturer would love to give each coach a ccc of 10 or 20K lbs. It's not going to happen.
You can make a case for "just a few pounds over" can't hurt anything. However, where does it end, if 10 lbs is ok, why not 100? And if thats ok, then why not 1000 lbs.? No one can stop a person from doing stupid things. I'll bet you wouldn't fly on an airplane that the pilot said was overloaded, "but don't worry about it because it will probably be OK"????
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Old 08-10-2006, 08:21 PM   #8
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Bubba, if that is really your photo and your packin', then I take back everything I said above.

I really really wasn't trying to say weight doesn't matter. I was just trying to make two points. One, the CCC is largely the combined result of a WAG process and the manufacturer's concerns about liability issues. So it seems to me that it is more a guideline than a prediction that your coach will fall apart or fail to stop if you cross the CCC limit by a single pound.

But my biggest concern was Rick M's observation that a particular Apex had a posted CCC of 700 lbs. If we are going to take the CCC as seriously as suggested above, then how on earth does anyone actually use those wonderful Smart Beds or those beautiful bountiful cabinets for anything other than storing air?

Norm
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Old 08-10-2006, 09:39 PM   #9
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Note that the CCC for Alpine assumes that you have a full water tank - 913 pounds.
And that you have 616 pounds in passengers (humans and furkids).

So you can gain a lot of CCC by leaving your water tank empty and carrying a lighter passenger load.

I guess you had better keep the waste tanks empty too. CCC does not take into account loaded waste tanks.

Audrey
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Old 08-11-2006, 05:24 AM   #10
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I was just trying to make two points. One, the CCC is largely the combined result of a WAG process and the manufacturer's concerns about liability issues. So it seems to me that it is more a guideline than a prediction that your coach will fall apart or fail to stop if you cross the CCC limit by a single pound. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


There is nothing "WAG" about CCC - it is derived by simple arithmetic from the GVWR, which in turn is based on the axle ratings (GAWR) and other mechanical factors (brakes, tires, gear ratios, etc.). Yes, each of those numbers has a certain amount of engineering and legal judgement built in. And No, the vehicle will not immediately self-destruct if any of those numbers is ever exceeded by a single pound. But in doing so you are exceeding the limits set by those who are best in a position to evaluate what is safe and reliable, i.e. the engineers who designed the vehicle. Might they be wrong? Might they be conservative? Sure, but its a poor gamble. And your opinion isn't worth a darn compared to theirs if the issue ever went to court.

CCC is, however, based on some assumptions (estimates) about other loads on the vehicle. If your actual other loads (e.g. propane & water) are less than those used in the CCC calculation, then by all means feel free to carry more "stuff". The actual weight is always what counts, not the estimated numbers.
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Old 08-11-2006, 08:25 AM   #11
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Food for thought, state and federal laws mandate maximum weight for axles based on configuration. Signal, dual, tandem ect. These load ratings are in place to protect roads and bridges. All states allow overweight permits for a fee. 20,000 pounds is the maximum in Washington State for a single axle with duals and 34,000 for single steer axle with single dual configuration. Our front axle is rated at 13,000 pounds so one could assume it is more critical than the rear sense it is 1000 pounds under the max.. I would be more concerned about GCWR and tire load rating than I would be about CCC. Having said all that I still weigh my coach when possible and stay under the limits. I am currently at 12,550 on the front and 19,400 0n the rear fully loaded.
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Old 08-11-2006, 08:40 AM   #12
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Wayne - when did the Apex Wanabe thing start?

Audrey
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Old 08-11-2006, 08:47 AM   #13
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Audrey,
Just after Desert Rat Rally. I toured Lyle and Cathy's rig and decided to call mine a wanabe sense I continue to upgrade my coach and it is approaching an Apex, less the Smart Beds.
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Old 08-18-2006, 05:29 PM   #14
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Audrey , not knowing anything about the bridge on rte 97, or even where it is, you had indicated that if you were going south your coach was acceptable to traverse across the bridge. Does that mean you are not able to go across it if you are going north?
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