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Old 11-14-2009, 01:14 AM   #1
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Charge Air Cooler Help

I know this topic has several posts associated with leaking CAC's. Count me in as one of the unfortunate with a leaking radiator. In replacing the radiator the shop tested the CAC and guess what, it leaks. Has any one got one from Dura-lite and does it have to be custom made? I prefer Dura-lite because of their warranty, 7 years or 100,000 miles.
Any suggestions or latest experiences with CAC's is appreciated.
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Old 11-14-2009, 07:21 AM   #2
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Nick,

While having my turbo replaced in Yakima, Cummins checked the CAC. Mine leaked, but was within the Cummins spec. I believe it was a loss of no more than 3 pounds of pressure within 30 seconds. Just wanted to make sure you are outside this range.

Ken (Trilogy elevator)
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:52 AM   #3
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IIWM, I'd take a look at the leaks and see if they are where they could be patched, and if they are the type that might be continuing to open up. If the former, then JB Weld, if the latter then it'll get worse over time and need a new one.
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Old 11-15-2009, 01:34 PM   #4
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I am afraid you can forget JB weld its not going to hold and just make a mess that will probably make it impossible to repair the old CAC, I replaced my CAC made by the infamous JB Radiator /Radiator Specialist . I replaced with a new core from Fleet Air, cost $950 and the coat for a repair on the old CAC is about $600. Two guys on our Forum has also used them recently one with a new core like me and the other with the repair, both were satisfied. I would susgest that you give them a call and see what he says, they do have a warenty. My CAC was not leaking that bad I still had 22 to 22.5 on A ISC Engine but I knew the leak is not going to go away, I had also just replaced the exhaust manifold and did not want chancing having to replace it again

Fleet Air Technology - Charge Air Coolers
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Old 11-15-2009, 03:27 PM   #5
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Here is a link to another outfit that gets rave reviews on the Country Coach yahoo group. Click Products, then Charge Air Coolers.
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:46 AM   #6
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Nick,
Had the same problem and thought I had nothing more to lose than a few hours of labor and few dollars for the epoxy by trying to fix it. Bought 3 tubes of Loctite 1166731 fast cure epoxy pak's and cleaned applyed the epoxy to area's around where the air leaks were coming from and allowed to dry overnight. Pressure tested the next day and tested good. Re-installed and have traveled to Calgary and back and Detroit and back to Washington st. since then and still holding. Probably putting off the enevitable but poor people have poor ways.
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:12 PM   #7
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Turns out that my CAC can be repaired with new gaskets. Tanks can be unbolted and 2 new gaskets installed and torqued to specification. Redlands Truck & RV is doing the fix. Gaskets are not cheap, but cheaper than a new CAC. We found the gaskets from Source Manufacturing in Oregon. Great people to talk to about this situation.

Source Manufacture is a rep for JB Radiator Specialty who I think made the CAC/Intercooler. According to Source Man. the CAC should be good for only about 5 years. Not good to hear!! Mind didn't last 4 years.

According to Redlands T&RV, mine was leaking at 13 of 24 connections. I never felt any loss of power, black smoke or low fuel economy. Hope it runs better, I'll let you all know after I spend my "Sweaty Wad of Money".
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:54 PM   #8
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We repaired ours with JB weld over a year ago and several thousand miles later it's holding just fine. Sometimes you just can't afford the big fix and you have to try the economical one first.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:05 AM   #9
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Just be aware that a leaking CAC can cause a lot of other problems, keep a close check on the area that was leaking, we had a forum member on another board that burnt a hole in his engine radiator from running a leaky CAC, also watch your exhaust manifold for cracks as it will run hotter than normal and is prone to crack with a leaky CAC and a leaky CAC over works a turbo. SO what looks like a cheap fix my not work out to be cheap.
I want to also say that my son and I was able to remove the CAC on a 2000 Dyn without dropping the radiator or jacking the rear up other than using the air leveling.
Most of the Monaco Coaches are hung from the top with two hangers with about a 1" bolt with a rubber donut top and bottom each side, we were able to loosen the hanger use a jack strap to pull the radiator back toward the engine drop the hyd cooler then the cac, had it out in 3 hrs and replaced it in 2 hrs not counting replacing the rubber skirt.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:04 PM   #10
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What are the warning signs of a leaking CAC? I have a Cummins RoadRelay 4 in my Alpine that allows me to monitor just about everything about the engine. If I know what to watch for I'll watch for it.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:46 PM   #11
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Lind- your engine has boost commanded (by the ECM), and boost achieved. To make a long story short, your RoadRelay reports boost achieved. UIMYG, this is your only boost level output on the RR, so you have to know the commanded level to see you are no longer achieving it, or say, perceive a loss from the usual max boost you see at some high rpm & steep hill type of condition you can replicate from time to time. I don't think there is a trouble code for lack of boost but I could be wrong.*

To make a short story long, the fuel-air tables have various optimal air requirements for each level of acceleration demand. The engine achieves that air (boost) level by varying the clearance space on turbocharger vanes (Cummins calls this something like variable geometry turbo) to capture more or less energy from the spinning turbine. This "actuated" boost level compresses the air for the engine to receive, adding a lot of heat. The intercooler or CAC cools the now-pressurized intake air. A leak will not likely reduce the CAC's cooling of intake air (which is a component of combustion temp, i.e. low temp in --> low temp out, high temp in --> high temp out), but a leak will give a too-high fuel ratio in the intake mix elevating exhaust temp and possibly continuing combustion in the exhaust using unspent fuel. Folks who are anal about such things add an exhaust gas temp gauge to monitor this.

BTW, low boost could be about a leak elsewhere than the CAC. Before the CAC, after the CAC, a leaking intake manifold, etc. Could be the turbo variable geometry actuation is sticking. So the leak isn't automatically the CAC, and needs to be diagnosed before throwing money & parts at it.

* Air compressor intake is on the boosted side of filtered air; I just had a boost leak (blown 3/4" rubber hose to the air compressor inlet) repaired under warranty, and tech reported no trouble codes set even tho I could hear the massive wooshing sound of the boost blowing out the hose. This was just ahead of the intake manifold or maybe just barely inside (I can't see that space without doing a chinese contortion exercise or I would now which), but I know it was affecting my efficiency at high rpm's and I would have expected a code. Could be that no code sets for a leak after the intake, and maybe there is a code for another location.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:32 PM   #12
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Good write up and explanation Mike Thanks! Tom I run VMSpc on our coach and this really didnt help me as I found the leak by accident when I was washing my CAC and radiator, actually my boost was not down enough to notice in the relatively level area I live and I had just installed a new exhaust manifold that could have been caused by the small leak, now way to know for sure but I do know the leak was not going to get better.
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Old 11-21-2009, 08:46 AM   #13
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The last time I checked the CAC was when we came back from Detroit and it checked good. Having had the 8.9 400 hp in the 05 Alpine, the 330 8.3 in the current 99 just never was enough. So a couple of weeks ago I bought and installed a Banks Power Pack. Wanting to know what the actual power gains were I had the coach run on a chassis dyno. Had not checked the CAC after the trip to the dyno when I made the previous post. Well I checked it again yesterday and it had totally failed. I think the repair was a marginal repair and by putting the 12 lb's extra boost (24lbs to 36lbs) and the extra exhaust heat was just too much for it. Ordered a new CAC from Dura-Lite so should be good to go.
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:22 AM   #14
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MKelley- did it fail at the gaskets, tank seams w/the fins, or within the fins?

Since the CAC is off the coach, here is an idea for future: install a threaded bung & plug in each tube end so you can spin out the plug and install a gauge. This before & after reading right in the in/out elbows would make for a fast check on CAC performance. This could be easily accomplished w/a flanged reducing bushing setup like for rigid conduit, and some good sealant. Might want to install some short flex tubing so the gauges will hang where easily read, or for the completely anal, install the gauges where they can be read while driving, say in the wife's clothes closet?
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