Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Alpine Coach Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-15-2016, 03:58 PM   #85
Registered User
 
mel s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken L. View Post
This has been an interesting adventure. I want to thank everyone who participated, all comments and suggestions were taken into account as much as possible. This project is done. I will report any difference I find reguarding the Filter Minder readings. It will be sometime before I will be able to report any [if any] improvement in mileage. I have great hopes for "power on the hills", maybe even "cooler running on the big hills", and "improved mileage" Since I am able to do all the work myself it was a CHEAP FIX, if it fixed anything? So here are the finished pictures. Thanks again, Ken
Ken L
How did you determine that those 2 metal louvers will allow enough air to pass through them to keep your engine happy?



Mel
'96 Safari
__________________

__________________
mel s is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-16-2016, 12:17 PM   #86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Riverside Ca.
Posts: 107
Old Scout, I like your thinkin. Ken
__________________

__________________
Ken L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2016, 12:25 PM   #87
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Riverside Ca.
Posts: 107
Mel, I didn't, Art did. Two grills were about the only choice given the room considerations.
I figured TWICE as much would have to be BETTER. I am not working from an Exact Science here.
Art's calculations might be an Exact Science, but mine are more of a guess.
The truth hurts, Ken
__________________
Ken L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2016, 12:59 PM   #88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Riverside Ca.
Posts: 107
Mel, Actually I was working from some science. Since the tube to the filter from the intake grill is 7" dia. that would be 38.48 sq. in. The 1 grill has an opening equaling 27" sq. in. that seemed to small to get the needed air in. Two grills equal 54" sq. in. more than enough to feed a 7" dia. tube. The needs of the engine came from Art, they would be ISL400, = 543cid. needs 990CFM @ 2100RPM. That said, maybe the whole system is too small, but I am not trying to reinvent the wheel here. I hope this helps put things in perspective. Since all the Alpines are done with the same intake grill, maybe someone else might be interested in this?
Adventure On! Ken
__________________
Ken L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2016, 09:56 AM   #89
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 113
Judging by how dirty I get every time I do anything in the engine compartment, that is not a source of clean dry air. ;-)
__________________
Tim and Delilah
2004 Alpine Coach, 400 Cummins ISL, 40'
Weatherford Texas
Jeeper64060 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 11:25 PM   #90
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 67
When I bought my 2003 36ft. 400hp Alpine 1 1/2 years ago, it was a mess. The previous owner had a rough time driving it and did quite a bit of body damage. While I was doing the bodywork, I noticed scratches on the intake grill and 2 of the scoops were missing. I ordered a new grill that now had 5 scoops on it, and installed it. I finished restoring the coach and drove it this way until recently. When I went to an Alpine rally in Newport Beach, I noticed that all the Alpines that I looked at only had 3 scoops. In talking to some of the owners, I was informed that the factory purposely knocked out 2 scoops to allow more air flow.
I knocked out the 2 scoops and noticed a big difference in engine response. I had read this thread before the rally, and opening up the hole was in the back of my mind. As a test, I removed the entire grill, and drove the coach hard. I live in the sierras, so finding hills to push the coach was easy. I could not believe the difference, especially off the line. I informed my friend who has a sob dp and he immediately removed his grill and was very happy with the results. My grill is now at a local sheet metal shop having all scoops removed and 3/4" expanded metal welded to the back. They are going to tape off the decorative stainless face and powder coat the rest black. The expanded metal should provide very little air resistance, but keep any foreign objects and birds out, unlike the old grill configuration from the factory. The scoops are not necessary because there is a duck bill pipe coming off of the bottom of the intake pipe which allows water to drain out before the filter. I am just mentioning this because I am pretty sure that some of you would be very happy with these results without having to spend hours or money to do the talked about modification. The factory grill id is 10" x 4". Those scoops add 2" of blockage each. With the 3 factory scoops, that amounts to a 60% blockage. Remove the scoops and you have approximately the same result as cutting another hole in your coach. By the way, my two friends coaches (1 a HR and the other a Monaco Diplomat) neither of them have scoops, just grills, if you are worried about water blowing in.

Frank
__________________
ALPINEER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 01:57 PM   #91
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Riverside Ca.
Posts: 107
Frank, You are going for it------------I LOVE it!
Early in my process I looked at the grill, measured it, and thought about
how the "scoops" might be restricting the air flow. Looking upward into the grill the scoops do little to restrict the opening, they do restrict the opening
some. It wasn't until I received the two new grills I purchased that I realizsed what the factory had done----Removing the two scoops to make a three scoop grill. It is my opinion that expanded metal causes quite a lot of turbulence in the air flow. I had a friend who built a trailer to haul stuff, he covered it with expanded metal, he could barely pull it empty. I wish I could report on the actual results of my efforts, but I have not been able to go on any trips since finishing the Air Intake project. I did take it on a TEST DRIVE and LOVED the coaches response, but that could be "Wishful Thinking"? Millage improvements will have to prove them self in the future. I did get both windshields replaced, so no more leaking around the glass, I LIKE that! So Frank please report back when you know the results from your "New Grill". Ken
__________________
Ken L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2016, 06:11 AM   #92
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 67
Well, "Engineer Mike" would be proud. I went back to the Sheet Metal shop yesterday and added a "hippy bus" stainless steel side air scoop to my order. I will be able to screw it on or take it off of the new grill. I don't have silver leaf so I can't do any testing of results other than the seat of my pants. I will be at the Paso Robles rally on May 1. If anyone in attendance that has silver leaf and wants to switch intakes for a test, they are more than welcome, as long as they give it back

If any of you want to do a simple intake test, set your engine to "high idle" and put a sheet of paper over your existing grill. Then take the grill off and put a piece of cardboard over the hole. DO NOT use paper, it will get sucked in. The added volume of air suction seems quite noticeable to me, but then again, what do I know?

I will report "non factual" findings when I receive my new grill & scoop.

Frank
__________________
ALPINEER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2016, 06:48 PM   #93
Senior Member
 
Old Scout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,938
OK--92 posts and we still haven't heard any "evidence" that this rather substantial mod effort will improve performance or MPG. I have to go back to the early part of this thread--I realize the "filter restriction meter" is a very crude measurement of air flow thru the filter but if the current opening is so undersized as has been claimed--you would think one or more WOT runs would register a modest restriction on the meter, which captures the highest restriction observed.....help me understand?????
__________________
Old Scout
2003 40' MDTS
Garden Ridge, Texas
Old Scout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2016, 08:05 PM   #94
Senior Member
 
wb7auk's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Spokane Valley, Wa
Posts: 1,987
Reducing air restriction to the turbo so it does not have to work hard reduces the air temperature output of it. The CAC tries to cool the air that is fed to the engine intake manifold from the turbo.
As you can see several things are in play including ambient air temperature that feeds the air inlet, this is important because a diesel engine has its best efficiency ie best MPG, best performance when the intake manifold temperature is 60 to 90 degrees F.
For every 10 degrees F above 90 degrees the efficiency drops 1 percent on average which does not sound like much but in practice is.
Raise the intake temperature 30 degrees and you loose 3 percent HP and Torque follows.
Air intake temperature is a very good indicator as to the air intake system performance that also shows up on the EGT temperatures one see's.
I monitor everything from ambient air temperature to exhaust temperature to get a true picture of current operations compaired to what was on the dyno test.
Sorry for getting into the weeds but hope this helps explain the how's and why's
__________________
Art
1999 Trade Winds 7371 Cat 3126B w/current upgrades
1990 D 250 Dodge Ram Cummins Turbo
wb7auk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2016, 06:20 AM   #95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: KY
Posts: 203
If you go to the Library and look at the 2002 brochure you will see that Alpine was made with the air intake in the rear panel and was square. I'm sure they changed that because of dirt in the panel. I have a 2003 and when I looked at the back of that panel it is open and you can see they turned the 90 up. I can't tell the size of that square grille.
I did a test for Ken and when I picked my coach up from the service center(being screwed) I checked the vaccum meter and reset it. Then I came home and put the hammer down and went over some small hills here and when I got home the meter showed 11. Before I reset it the meter read 8. Now I want to take the grille off and run the same road with the hammer down and just see where the meter lands at. That was a great idea to remove the grille, I also like the scoop idea. That should show if its better or not on that meter.
Larry
2003 38FDDS Alpine Cummins 350 ISC
2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Hard Top
__________________
greenmachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2016, 01:09 PM   #96
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Riverside Ca.
Posts: 107
Frank, I think "Engineer Mike" should be proud that you adopted his "Hippy Bus" side scoop. It might just replace the air flow that the Expanded Metal removes???? Just saying. Old Scout still wants FACTS that's cool, wish I had some to offer, I'll work on that. Art HAS facts. Maybe he can help with the expanded metal verses open air flow issue? Larry, remove the grill and get on the road. We are starting to need results here. Frank how did it go in Paso Robles, any takers on your offer? You should have some road time from the High Sierras to Wine Country on it now? Ken
__________________
Ken L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2016, 01:33 PM   #97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Riverside Ca.
Posts: 107
I have been looking at the air flow through expanded metal issue. I have found this.
Southern Airboat • View topic - restriction of air on my cage could not believe it
I am still looking. Ken
__________________
Ken L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2016, 01:45 PM   #98
Senior Member
 
wb7auk's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Spokane Valley, Wa
Posts: 1,987
Ken,
Without a air flow study to determine if one has a positive or negative air pressure at
the scoop location the effects of installing one to obtain a ram air effect is just luck.
One also has to be aware of the down side, two come to mind a dirt/ rain scoop and
what vortexes occure at the collection point that the air intake connects to.
Bottom line without this information it might be helpful and it might not.
__________________

__________________
Art
1999 Trade Winds 7371 Cat 3126B w/current upgrades
1990 D 250 Dodge Ram Cummins Turbo
wb7auk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
engine



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Air Bag and Shock Deplacement oldmattb Roadmaster Motorhome Chassis Forum 15 09-27-2015 11:31 PM
Air louvers on engine bay doors. TEDDE Monaco Owner's Forum 32 10-14-2014 01:25 PM
Engine air filter problem tranquility Monaco Owner's Forum 8 06-13-2014 01:32 PM
Weber Q2200 Portable Grill Review Dan_public Gear and Product Discussions 6 05-19-2014 07:07 PM
Relocate air intake 1997 Safari kketterling Monaco Owner's Forum 2 02-06-2014 06:30 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.