Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Alpine Coach Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-03-2012, 08:35 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Algoma's Avatar


 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 2,639
Maybe you can tell from this brochure http://cumminsengines.com/assets/pdf/4971107.pdf.
Another possibility is that your engine, if an ISC, was upgraded to the 2 speed PAC brake which came out a few years ago. If you lift the bed you will see the PAC brake actuator mounted between the turbo and exhaust header. Hope this will sort out the confusion.
__________________

__________________
John and Mary Knight
2015 Newmar Ventana 4311 - wheelchair accessible
2015 Cadillac SRX Luxury AWD
Algoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-03-2012, 12:03 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Auburn, CA, Havasu, AZ & Mulege, BCS
Posts: 5,217
On all the Alpines I've checked out, the ISL or ISC is on large letters facing rearward and visible from opening the engine hatch.
The serial# plate is on the top, right edge of rearmost engine flange, facing straight up. take a rag & some cleaner to get road grime off. I can read mine by sticking my head inside the engine compartment, but I have to adjust head position to focus (was a time twasn't so....). Worst case take a mirror, clean the tag, and take your time transcribing the serial# & all info from the tag. Then, put an entry called Cummins Alpine in your smart phone (or enter this info under your Alpine Coach smartphone entry) and put in all the tag contents for the next time you need to tell a service person what they are dealing with.
__________________

__________________
Baja-tested '08 2-slide 36'
Alpine: The Ultimate DIY'er Project
EngineerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 08:32 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
rdownward's Avatar
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Leeds, Utah
Posts: 199
OK. I checked out my engine yesterday. It is the ISC engine and right on the front of the valve cover it says,"Equipped with PAC Brake." It all looks OEM to me. I can post photos if there are any questions about this. So, do I have a 'one-of-a-kind" monster or what?
__________________
Roger & Diana
'03 Alpine 36MDDS
Leeds, UT
rdownward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 08:56 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Algoma's Avatar


 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 2,639
Roger, in '03 your ISC would have been equipped with the one position PAC exhaust brake. So the switch by the transmission should say "exhaust brake" and have 2 positions, ON or OFF. If your switch has 3 positions, 1, 2 and OFF then you must have the new PAC brake or the wrong switch. It is possible your dashboard was built assuming you had an ISL engine and you have the wrong switch but you need to check the PAC brake on the engine if you want to be sure. Unfortunately it is hard to check the operation of the exhaust brake as the transmission will not activate the brake if you are sitting at idle. I don't have the newer version so can't tell you if it looks different to mine.
__________________
John and Mary Knight
2015 Newmar Ventana 4311 - wheelchair accessible
2015 Cadillac SRX Luxury AWD
Algoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 09:07 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
rdownward's Avatar
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Leeds, Utah
Posts: 199
The switch is the 3 position and the brake definitely has 2 speeds or functions. If I recall, up on the switch is high and down is low.
__________________
Roger & Diana
'03 Alpine 36MDDS
Leeds, UT
rdownward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 10:12 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
Algoma's Avatar


 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 2,639
I suggest you call Pacbrake and ask them if they can explain what you have, I am out of ideas. 800.663.0096
__________________
John and Mary Knight
2015 Newmar Ventana 4311 - wheelchair accessible
2015 Cadillac SRX Luxury AWD
Algoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 04:29 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
rdownward's Avatar
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Leeds, Utah
Posts: 199
I guess I'm satisfied with the info I have. Don't want to worry about getting the engine serial number, etc. to check further. I do have the ISC engine (says so in two places on the engine) and I have a 2 speed PAC brake that works GREAT (I use the higher speed when cruising on mountain roads and the lower speed in heavy traffic or when descending steep grades). So, I guess I'll just count my blessings knowing that I have something that apparently very few others have and not look a gift horse in the mouth!!! Thanks all for your good information. As always, you guys are GREAT and a valuable source of information and advice for all Alpine owners. The more I get to know about my coach, the more I'm glad I found this forum. THANKS!
__________________
Roger & Diana
'03 Alpine 36MDDS
Leeds, UT
rdownward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 12:08 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
tiredvet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 396
rdownward, don't feel like the lone wolf. My coach also has a three position switch and I know it is a ISC motor. Very strange? It would be nice to know the facts about the switch and the PAC BRAKE.
__________________
Jim & Elissa Edmonds
2003 34FDDS Alpine Banks 430hp #74869
Viola, Idaho 3rd Armored Cav & 3rd Infantry Division
tiredvet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 01:05 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Auburn, CA, Havasu, AZ & Mulege, BCS
Posts: 5,217
Jim & Rog- I believe in 03 WRV sold rigs w/the ISL as well as the ISC. Could be that the switch sends signal in either Hi or Lo to a single stage Pac and WRV was installing the 2 stage switch but PB on ISCs for a while. You could check this out somewhat easily.
Method 1- next time in a shop w/Cummins software (cheapest version will do), have them hook up to the diagnostic port behind the passenger kick panel & read engine brake parameters. ISC should be set for single brake output. If it is set for 2 stage (I don't think its an option in an ISC flash, but might be), this isn't definitive as WRV could have combined both to a single stage output.
Method2- The Pac has an actuator attached to the butterfly housing, and an air line to it; follow the air line away from the actuator cylinder A.C. to find the air solenoid valve ASV. The ASV controls the application of air. On all the docs I've got there is no two stage A.C. and the ASV is only 12V or 0V on or off (w/valve open or closed). There has to be some difference in these components over customary to actuate in 2 stages. If on your rig the solenoid valve has a 3rd wire and/or the A.C. has some mid-stroke detent or second air line, then you have a different PacBrake animal than the rest of the herd; if 2-wire & single stage, then the wiring is branched to accommodate the switch and the standard PB is acting in either Hi or Lo in its usual single stage manner.
Method 3- (this one cost zero) on next long hill descent, run mph up to 65 (or 70 if its not a real steep hill), start w/PB in Hi. Count how many seconds it takes to drop 5 mph; switch to Lo, run back up to 65 or 70, foot off, count 5 mph drop time again. If there is a Lo vs Hi setting the difference on a same slope hill should be measurable. If you have to get out a mental micrometer, then you are looking for the difference too hard and there is none. This is the method I used to finally discern a small difference between Hi & Lo Jake on my rig. Took several runs for me as most hills have short slope changes skewing the data, and I had to repeat several times.
__________________
Baja-tested '08 2-slide 36'
Alpine: The Ultimate DIY'er Project
EngineerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 01:31 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
tiredvet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 396
EM- I'll have a chance in the near future to try Method 3. A couple of quick questions I have. 1-the pack brake dose not work in 6th speed only in 5th and lower. Is this a correct function. 2-in the small hydraulic compartment the fill tank with the dip stick has two markings.Does the lower mark represent low level. There is no wording on it that I can see and I wasn't sure if the two marks represent safe operating range or what?
__________________
Jim & Elissa Edmonds
2003 34FDDS Alpine Banks 430hp #74869
Viola, Idaho 3rd Armored Cav & 3rd Infantry Division
tiredvet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 08:42 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Auburn, CA, Havasu, AZ & Mulege, BCS
Posts: 5,217
Jim- No, and Yes.
P.B. should work in 6th down to the shift level set in the Allison software. Are you sure it doesn't just shift down ASAP to 5th? The idea on engine braking is rev's produce exhaust therefore backpressure, more revs ~ more back pressure w/out call for fuel to assist spinning of engine.
And marks are Hi/Lo on hydraulic tank dipstick, but I'm pretty sure anywhere on the stick is OK and probably a ways below that, as the tank elevation is above any of the components.
Cleverly on the 08-09 DPF engine units they moved the hydraulic controller to above the tank, go figure.
__________________
Baja-tested '08 2-slide 36'
Alpine: The Ultimate DIY'er Project
EngineerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 10:04 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
tiredvet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 396
Thanks for the info Mike. I'll pay closer attention to the pac break in 6th gear on it's next outing. It was very noticeable in the lower gears.
__________________
Jim & Elissa Edmonds
2003 34FDDS Alpine Banks 430hp #74869
Viola, Idaho 3rd Armored Cav & 3rd Infantry Division
tiredvet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2012, 01:03 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 2,226
All - Guess I'm feeling ornery. The Pac Brake in some other Mh's is a lever, at least I have seen one in a monaco I think, but that could have been his Parking Brake old brain cells.

In (for sure 05 and above), you have an engine brake, w/software to the allison to downshift it to 4th gear. In HI, the engine shuts off both intake/exhaust valves in 3 of the 6 cyliners, so those act like a compressor, providing backpressure along with 4th gear, it slows you down some. If in LO, it shuts the valves in all 6 cylinders and again shifts down to 4th gear, this can really slow you down. I use both going down steep hill, switching between the two so I don't overrev the engine higher than around 2300 RPM. Now I might have the buttons mixed up, since I just know their position, and don't remember how they are labeled in the PC room.

Now some diiscussion on that in the past it was stated it won't hurt the engine to overrev if you are using EB. I checked with cummins, the shop foreman I talked to said it's not a good idea to overrev the engine, and he related a case of a monaco onwer coach they had in the shop for that very reason, he overreved it coming downhill, with his EB on, and blew out two cylinders, so my suggestion is not to let the RPM's go over 2300 downhill. That equates to around 51 MPH in my coach, when I hit around 48, I just shift the button to which position gives me max engine brake (HI/LO), and the coach slows down to 40 or so, then I shift the button back to HI, and away we go. Doing this I almost never need to use the brakes. My coach does not seem to be equipped the better cruise control feature where I can leave the EB on all the time.

In my diesel driving days I used a Exhaust Brake in some of the trucks I drove, and it was loud, but worked fine. I have not driven a truck/MH equipped with one in 15 years or so, so I am not sure it works exactly the same as a EB equipped unit. I like the EB in our coach, and cummins got so much feedback on it, they now put one on the Dodge pickup with the diesel option. It's a nice feature, especially with us having Hydraulic brakes.
__________________
Monty & Janet - 2007 Alpine APEX 40 MDTS
S/N - 75715 - Retired - Master Certified RV Tech
Old Rv'er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2012, 09:51 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
Algoma's Avatar


 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 2,639
2 points here. Firstly, most Allisons are programmed so that when you hit the exhaust brake the transmission shifts down to 4 as this is a direct drive gear and not an overdrive like 5 and 6 which provide little braking effort. Second, the engine is designed to exceed the normal governed speed with the exhaust brake on as braking force increases with engine speed. However there is still a limit (around 3000rpm) and the transmission will shift up to 5 if this is exceeded. I don't think the engine brake equipped engines allow this as you are physically changing the valve timing, not just slowing the exhaust gasses.
__________________

__________________
John and Mary Knight
2015 Newmar Ventana 4311 - wheelchair accessible
2015 Cadillac SRX Luxury AWD
Algoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
brake



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Bendix Brake Sticking jjonas9019 Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 25 11-19-2017 06:33 PM
Tracker and us Gear tow brake 56 Nomad Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 4 02-29-2012 03:56 PM
Brake wiring? Jrf4865 Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 7 02-28-2012 07:42 AM
water injection on a gas engine augoldminer Class A Motorhome Discussions 5 02-27-2012 12:46 PM
Engine Diagnostic Plug Coma Monaco Owner's Forum 7 02-27-2012 09:03 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.