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Old 02-25-2015, 01:31 PM   #1
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Engine Wont Start or Even Crank

2005 Alpine Coach FDDS


The engine wont crank. It worked OK for the past 14 days.
The Actia gauges seem to be working as usual so I don't think it's the igination switch. May the starter solenoid.

On both the rear & front Vansco VMM there is NO net light flashing as it usually does.
All battery voltages are good.
I have reset the Vansco units about 10 times. Still no NET flashing & no engine cranking.
I guess Ill start by switching out the Vansco units.
Any more ideas please advise or call me 513-383-8946 TJ Shively
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Old 02-25-2015, 01:50 PM   #2
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Hello TJ, have you tried to start the coach by jumping the starter Solenoids? Have you checked to see if the starter solenoids are receiving voltage when the key is set to start? I would check the voltage at the starter before I would start changing the Vansco units. Also check the ground on the batteries and chassis.


Just some Ideas to think about.
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:22 PM   #3
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The reason I thought it might be the Vansco is that the NET led is NOT flashing.
It normal flashes if the Vanscos are on the net.
Does anyone why the NET is not flashing.
I'm going to try Dave's suggestion but this net stuff has me #&$@!!
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Old 02-25-2015, 03:31 PM   #4
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Iothers folks problems did a search "Dead Coach Help" and read other folks problems.
Engineer Mike said that you can swap the front VMM for the rear VMM. I guess I try that. I have two old VMM that WRV never asked to get back - there was a recall or something - and they sent me two new ones. Do the old one - that worked OK with I removed them - still have their program? If they do I'll just replace them but I'm afraid I'll get the programming lost completely. The instructions said to remove the wiring on the front VMM and plug in the new one, letting it hang. Then follow the instructions, I have but won't post now. I'll guess I'll swap the back & front like Engineer Mike says. Here goes.
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Old 02-25-2015, 03:43 PM   #5
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battery cables

sounds nutty, but any loose cables.
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Old 02-25-2015, 04:07 PM   #6
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I'll admit I don't know what a vansco VMM is but I know this much. If you have a no crank condition it's always best to troubleshoot using step by step procedures. As soon as you start jumping around from this and that you're chasing your tail. I'd go along with swapping a known good something for something that you don't know is good.

My knowledge tells me this. Just because you have voltage does not mean you have sufficient current to crank anything. A DC motor needs 12 volts yes but the starter needs a whole lot of amperage 150 or so. You could run your furnace for a few days on a battery that is not charging because the furnace motor won't draw that much current compared to a starter motor.

The starter solenoid is a high current relay actuated by your ignition switch. If you have low current flow through the circuit it can be caused by several things. It should at least click, click when the key is in the crank position. David is in the right area by telling you to check voltages at the solenoid.

Loose or dirty connections anywhere along either the positive or negative battery cables can be the issue. Just because it worked for the last 14 days does not mean it will still work. Maybe it was on the verge of blocking the current. Maybe you were always close to not cranking and now you are, as you know, not cranking.

Batteries can still have 12 volts and still not have sufficient capacity (amperage) to crank the SM. You should still here some clicking. A dirty S solenoid can cause your issue.

You have to find out if you have voltages at the starter solenoid. Solve that problem first. Can you actuate the solenoid by jumping it??? Then check the batteries for capacities.

Also keep this in mind. There is a major difference between "Not starting" and "Not cranking". The troubleshooting procedure is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. They are two completely different paths. I'm not trying to be critical just trying to avoid confusion for future discussions.

TeJay
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Old 02-25-2015, 05:10 PM   #7
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Thanks Dave & TeJay, I am getting, on the Actia LED display, ENGINE COMM ERR & TRANS COMM ERR. I swapped the front & rear but it did not help. There is still no net led on the either VMM. It flashed once when I turn the coach disconnect back on but went blank right away. I’m at a RV Repair Shop and tomorrow I’ll have them check out the solenoid/starter issue. I’m sure they do that but they have never seen a Vansco. I checked all the grounds I could find and the voltage at the starter was 13.3 VDC. Maybe they will get me started tomorrow or something. Well I’ll tomorrow after I get the RV tech here to check out the solenoid/starter. I am alone and can’t here click from up here. Those two errors on the Actia dash have me wondering. It seems to be reporting a communications error.
Anyone else that can help, please do. Thanks.
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:28 PM   #8
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The vmm's need to communicate for the engine to start without a jumper. The err indicators you have and the lack of the network signal indicate that they are not communicating. Another indicator would be that the transmission push pad window will have a * star in it instead of an N showing neutral. I would try the old vmm's they should have the program still in them.
There are also fuses for the trans and engine on the inside wall of the battery compartment by the big boy solenoid. I think yours is behind a black metal cover.
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:56 PM   #9
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On another thread you indicated that you were working on a problem with the toad lights. If somehow you got a 12 volt feedback through the toad wiring to the Vansco it's possible that the vmm got shorted out because of that. They may need to be sent in to be repaired.

Just a thought as to why they quit working.

Installing the old vmm's should tell you if it's the vmm's or something else.
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:19 PM   #10
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Check tranny selector. If not in park there is usually a safety switch preventing the starter from working.
I have had to shift our trans lever a few times when it seemed like the coach was dead. Soon as it was really, fully in Park the engine turned over. A bit of a heart stutter though!
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Old 02-26-2015, 10:09 AM   #11
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I swapped out the Vansco VMM's and I now have the NET LED flashing but now the transmission went blank. See my post " TRANS COMM ERR - ENGINE COMM ERR - HELP"
for the problem as it is now. Bottom line = COACH STILL WILL NOT CRANK
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Old 02-26-2015, 11:32 PM   #12
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Now that you have communication, switch the vmm's front to rear and rear to front to see if the problem follows the vmm.
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Old 02-27-2015, 08:45 PM   #13
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See "Dead Coach Stranded"

search "Dead Coach Stranded" for answer to problem
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