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Old 07-02-2011, 05:58 PM   #1
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Generator problem

the gen/set runs for 5 min. then shuts down. It is an Onan HDKAJ diesel.
the code is #24 --which states:"controller did not sense temp. change during first 5 minutes of operation".
I've filled the recovery tank to the COLD mark. (not true-I could not see a COLD mark. I filled it up to the top.)
It still shuts down after 5 min regardless of the load.
Help please. this is the first day of our 6 week trip.
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:56 PM   #2
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This is just a wild guess, with no knowledge to back it up and hoping someone with more knowledge than me can confirm or laugh me off the stage, but could it be a bad temperature sending unit. If you have coolant, but the controller is not sensing a temperature change the sending unit could be bad, or a wire is disconnected or broken? Like I said, just a guess. It is also a guess that there even is a temperature sending unit, and I wouldn't even want to guess where it would be if there is one. So much for an answer from someone who has no idea what he is talking about. Ok, I'll sit down now.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:46 AM   #3
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CC:

That has been a problem for a lot of us and is often transient. I just keep restarting it until I win!
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Old 07-03-2011, 08:30 AM   #4
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Thanks for the help, guys.
Take Pride: That's the answer I was hoping for. I tried it 10 times yesterday, today is a new day. I'll post my success story at the end of today's travels.
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:59 PM   #5
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chris cross,

I think the most common, unresolved GenSet dying issue for Alpine Coaches is "Code 27", not "Code 24". See this link for comments about the "Code 27" issue:

Genset - Code 27

I think your Code 24 is a different situation. The manual states, "COOLANT TEMPERATURE SENDER FAULTóCODE NO. 24" The post by Monaco38 seems to closer to identifying the cause.
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:37 AM   #6
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All – According to the Service Manual Code 24 is as follows
Coolant Temperature Sender Fault – Code 24* (Controller did not sense temperature change during first 5 minutes of operation)

Corrective Action:
1. Remove the top housing panel (page 6-3), if lose, reconnect engine harness spade connector E3-1 to the coolant temperature sender (Figure 10-1, P, A-1, A-4).
2. Disconnect engine harness connector P1 from the controller assembly. Check for electrical continuity between Pin P1-12 and connector E3-1 and for missing, bent or corroded connector pins and repair as necessary.
3. Replace the coolant temperature sender.
*This is a by-passable fault prior to spec f, Note also that an open circuit is sensed as cold temperature, resulting in maximum pre-heat and post heat times.

My Notes: Depending on what year you have, Spec F is not ours I don’t think, the 8KW Genset should be Spec K.

I am unable to attach the drawings associated with this problem, PM me for them if you don’t know what you are looking for. FWIW – 10-1 shows the electrical connections as do some of the other drawings. My guess is the temp sensor is toast, it’s a cheap part to replace, try the electrical connections to make sure they are tight, if that don’t get it change the temp sensor, if that don’t get it, check all the electrical connections under the top cover, to ensure they are tight and not corroded. The worst thing could be the controller assembly, that is an ONAN fix, take it to them for that, have a good balance in the checking account. Get the part from ONAN/Cummins, take in the Model Number, Specification Number and the Serial Number, they will want all three.

THINK SAFETY, disable auto-gen-start provisions, in fact I would turn off all coach power to be safe. You don’t want that thing trying to start with your hands inside it.
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:41 AM   #7
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All:

The generator stopping by itself has been reported under several circumstances. The Code 27 seems to be related to simultaneously running the engine.

My issue is shutdown after 30 seconds when the AGS calls for the genset to charge the batteries. In this case a manual start never shuts down, just the auto-start.

I'm not sure what the code is since I forget how to determine that, offhand, other than at the Xantrex panel, which is not the Onan generator.

I re-searched the forum and still have not found the answer to this non-engine-running, generator shutdown, after the AGS calls for an automatic start.

Anyone?

M&J: Has your problem returned (since your last post 4-23-11)?
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:53 AM   #8
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TP - I would gess it is the charger in the xantrex calling for a lot of amps, and the genset is not ready for that load yet, mine does this as well. A manual start does not cause it to shutdown. It might be code 27, but I don't think so, and I have not checked either, you can extend the gen slide and look at the start button, it will flash the code for you and then you can write it down, post it here or send me an e-mail and I will send you the page that describes it as a PDF.
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:09 AM   #9
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Thanks Monty:

I was thinking the code was indicated by the flashing switch, I just couldn't recall. Oughtn't all the start switched function the same and flash the code?

I'll see if I can replicate it tomorrow. Of course the batteries are all charged up, so the call and the amp-load will take some time to replicate. I'll post as soon as I have something.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Rv'er View Post
All Ė According to the Service Manual Code 24 is as follows
Coolant Temperature Sender Fault Ė Code 24* (Controller did not sense temperature change during first 5 minutes of operation)

Corrective Action:
1. Remove the top housing panel (page 6-3), if lose, reconnect engine harness spade connector E3-1 to the coolant temperature sender (Figure 10-1, P, A-1, A-4).
2. Disconnect engine harness connector P1 from the controller assembly. Check for electrical continuity between Pin P1-12 and connector E3-1 and for missing, bent or corroded connector pins and repair as necessary.
3. Replace the coolant temperature sender.
*This is a by-passable fault prior to spec f, Note also that an open circuit is sensed as cold temperature, resulting in maximum pre-heat and post heat times.

My Notes: Depending on what year you have, Spec F is not ours I donít think, the 8KW Genset should be Spec K.

I am unable to attach the drawings associated with this problem, PM me for them if you donít know what you are looking for. FWIW Ė 10-1 shows the electrical connections as do some of the other drawings. My guess is the temp sensor is toast, itís a cheap part to replace, try the electrical connections to make sure they are tight, if that donít get it change the temp sensor, if that donít get it, check all the electrical connections under the top cover, to ensure they are tight and not corroded. The worst thing could be the controller assembly, that is an ONAN fix, take it to them for that, have a good balance in the checking account. Get the part from ONAN/Cummins, take in the Model Number, Specification Number and the Serial Number, they will want all three.

THINK SAFETY, disable auto-gen-start provisions, in fact I would turn off all coach power to be safe. You donít want that thing trying to start with your hands inside it.


I have the same error code 24. I'v tried to PM you to get the diagrams you referenced but for some reason I can't. Would you please email them to me? Thank you.
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Old 08-17-2011, 01:54 PM   #11
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I had this problem on recent trip while driving and trying to run roof AC in lieu of dash. First time I pulled over, extended gen slide, observed pool of water on top of gen from dash AC condensate (Search here on Alpine forum for same, lots of discussion). I cycled the breaker which appeared not to have tripped (had to do something, right?), then went into coach & turned roof AC on, then started gen. It ran fine, AC came on, had comfortable trip.
Second time, I used the remote to turn AC on (wife), then turned on gen and it ran. i'm wondering if it shuts down if there is no (or minimal) load?
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EngineerMike View Post
I had this problem on recent trip while driving and trying to run roof AC in lieu of dash. First time I pulled over, extended gen slide, observed pool of water on top of gen from dash AC condensate (Search here on Alpine forum for same, lots of discussion). I cycled the breaker which appeared not to have tripped (had to do something, right?), then went into coach & turned roof AC on, then started gen. It ran fine, AC came on, had comfortable trip.
Second time, I used the remote to turn AC on (wife), then turned on gen and it ran. i'm wondering if it shuts down if there is no (or minimal) load?
That's been my experience, too. Intermittently, the gen set would shut off while driving and running the roof A/C -- but only if there wasn't a load on the generator when engaged. Someone else suggested in another thread having a load on the generator before starting it. They were keeping the light in the bedroom in the always on position (it is on an A-C line, not DC) so that when the generator started it had a load. I simply turn the Air Conditioner on before starting the generator. SInce I started that practice, the generator has not shut down unexpectedly. The generator shutdowns only occurred when the MH was moving -- never when stationary, adding to the mystery.

Anyway, as long as it works when I need it, it is no problem turning the AC to the on position before starting the generator to ensure it has a load (and doesn't shut off).
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:51 PM   #13
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Ok - I will tell you my experience again. Once you start genset, disable the charger in the Xantrex as soon as it comes up, then you can start the main engine. If the main engine and the genset both try to charge the batteries at the same time, the xantrex forces the genset to shutdown, see the earlier post code 27 and those related comments. When ME is off, my genset runs just wonderful, when I schedule the AGS subsystem to bring the genset online when battery voltage falls to the suggested levels, it sometimes shuts down after 5 minutes or so, I then manually restart it, and it runs fine, Takepride says the same thing. I don't know why, and have not checked the error code to determine what issue I'm dealing with.
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:11 PM   #14
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WRV set our generator not to start if your fuel level drops below 1/4 tank, however mine is at 1/2 fuel level. Everytime I fill my fuel tank it takes at least 5 attempts to start generator but oh well it works. Sometimes generator will start and run for a minute or two and quit, just restart until it keeps running, I guess it possibly gets air in fuel line. Cummings Coach has not fixed problem after 4 visits.
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