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Old 05-24-2005, 06:12 AM   #1
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WRV said we are only one of two Alpine Coaches with tire temp/pressure sensors. It's a new option in the 2006s. Maybe some of you have added these after market.

The VMS monitor for the tire temps goes to "yellow" status when the tires temps are 150 to 165 degrees, and "red" status when the temps are above 165 degrees. We have no idea if these are the appropriate temp ranges for our Toyo M120Zs, and the service techs at WRV aren't sure either, that's how they came set from the factory.

Well, after just a couple of hours of driving around 60 mph in the hot weather we are having right now, the inner right rear dual reaches 151 or thereabouts. It stabilizes or climbs a little from there. It's always a few degrees hotter than the inner left dual rear. The front tires are the next hottest - the right one first.

Yesterday was an hot day - 97 degrees ambient temp, intense solar radiation, no clouds, hot road surfaces I'm sure. The hottest tire got to the higher 150s, and by the time we got near our campground (lot's of stoplights after downgrades, so lots of braking) it had reached 160 degrees. Several other tires were > 150. This was making us nervous! But the thing is, we don't know if these are numbers to be worried about or not.

And another thing - the metal wheels felt really hot, but the rubber didn't feel hot. The tire sensor is wrapped around the wheel inside the tire, so it is actually giving the wheel temperature.

This may be a case of "too much information" since we can't (yet) find data to indicate what is OK and what is not. That's kind of a problem with instrumenting stuff - if you get all this data, but you don't have a any idea of what it "should" be, then it may be causing useless worry.

Now I know that there are a bunch of you out there driving for hours with no info on your tire temps and apparently no problems either.

We'll try to find out what the temps should be and get back to y'all.

If any of you have some information or experience with this, much appreciated.

Audrey
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Old 05-24-2005, 06:12 AM   #2
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WRV said we are only one of two Alpine Coaches with tire temp/pressure sensors. It's a new option in the 2006s. Maybe some of you have added these after market.

The VMS monitor for the tire temps goes to "yellow" status when the tires temps are 150 to 165 degrees, and "red" status when the temps are above 165 degrees. We have no idea if these are the appropriate temp ranges for our Toyo M120Zs, and the service techs at WRV aren't sure either, that's how they came set from the factory.

Well, after just a couple of hours of driving around 60 mph in the hot weather we are having right now, the inner right rear dual reaches 151 or thereabouts. It stabilizes or climbs a little from there. It's always a few degrees hotter than the inner left dual rear. The front tires are the next hottest - the right one first.

Yesterday was an hot day - 97 degrees ambient temp, intense solar radiation, no clouds, hot road surfaces I'm sure. The hottest tire got to the higher 150s, and by the time we got near our campground (lot's of stoplights after downgrades, so lots of braking) it had reached 160 degrees. Several other tires were > 150. This was making us nervous! But the thing is, we don't know if these are numbers to be worried about or not.

And another thing - the metal wheels felt really hot, but the rubber didn't feel hot. The tire sensor is wrapped around the wheel inside the tire, so it is actually giving the wheel temperature.

This may be a case of "too much information" since we can't (yet) find data to indicate what is OK and what is not. That's kind of a problem with instrumenting stuff - if you get all this data, but you don't have a any idea of what it "should" be, then it may be causing useless worry.

Now I know that there are a bunch of you out there driving for hours with no info on your tire temps and apparently no problems either.

We'll try to find out what the temps should be and get back to y'all.

If any of you have some information or experience with this, much appreciated.

Audrey
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Old 05-24-2005, 09:04 AM   #3
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I have the system on my 05. I have never seen anything above 130. My yellow alarm is set at 160 and the red at 180. Bob Dickman tire [http://www.dickmantires.com] is probably the best source of information on the Smart Tire system. Silverleaf is another good source. http:/www.simply-smarter.com.
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Old 05-24-2005, 10:27 AM   #4
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Audrey- Sounds to me like a) temps you are reading are too hot, but b) the setup is not exactly conducive to getting good data. Tire heat has been discussed on a yahoo thread I follow:
Yahoo Diesel-RV Group
Search tool @ bottom of the page. The threads on tire temps, w/some input from ex-career-manufacturer types, is that "normal" temps will vary, but in the 150's is high. Normal should be more like 130 +/-15 on hot days. BUT, the important location for temp is not on the tread or at the bead (which is the closest rubber to the sensor if I get the configuration of your setup accurately), but @ the shoulder where tread meets sidewall. That is where the deformation of the tread rolling along the road "works" the rubber/tread plies against the rubber/sidewall plies & generates serious internal heat in the tire. Tire heat, according to the input on that thread, is additive, i.e. each occurance adds to tire wear, which given the nature of tire rubber makes sense to me.
W/the sensor wrapped around the wheel, it is fairly remote from the critical shoulder temp, and a helluva lot closer to the brakes. I'd expect the brakes to telegraph heat to the wheel if you are braking much.
There is probably an equation that could be empirically derived between the wheel temp and tire shoulder, but I'd expect correlation to be somewhat loose due to vagaries of braking intesity. You can check the reliability of the measurments you are getting by dirving around, then hopping out (after coach stops, please) & hitting various surfaces w/an infra-red thermometer. Some ex-trucker motorhomers do this as routine at each stop to detect any impending trouble (they don't have all the real-time whiz-bangs you do).
So, you could be seeing a calibration issue w/the initial setup, a braking-interference issue w/the location of the sensor, something I haven't figured out, or you have a tire temp problem. I'd bet on the first or second. 150 is getting pretty hot, so if you can put your hand comfortably on the tire shoulder when you're getting 150's, I'd relax.
I guess I forgot to cover the obvious, to slow down below 90 mph, & see how it performs there; maybe that hot-rodding around is what's heating things up?
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Old 05-24-2005, 02:59 PM   #5
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I use the Smart Tire system as a tool. I typically see a 20 pound increase in tire pressure from cold to hot. On a hot day I normally see 122 degrees. Yesterday I got up to 133. Probably due to brake heat. I was driving a switchback road in the Ozarks from Blue Eye AR to Springdale. If I had seen temps approaching 150 I probably would pull over and let it cool down. The research I have done suggest 180 as panic time and emanate blow out.

I once seen 165 on my 2000 Alpine on the right front. Turns out the brake caliper had hung up and was dragging. As soon as the alarm went off I pulled over and found I had blew the oil seal and melted my ABS sensor. With out the system a fire could have easily occurred or a blow out from overheating.

Overtime you get a sense of what is normal and the alarms should warn you before any catastrophic failure. Knock on wood I have never had a blow out. I also have the sensors on my Toad and Car hauler.
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Old 05-24-2005, 03:23 PM   #6
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Wayne- is your system based on a wheel-mounted (& therefore wheel temp) sensor? If not how does it read tire temp? Mike
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Old 05-24-2005, 04:26 PM   #7
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Hmmmm - thanks for the input.

Well all the tires get into the 140+ range after driving for a while at 65 mph. This seems routine - at least it was during the past week. It's not like just one tire is much much hotter than others.

Several days ago, the inner right rear dual reached 151 and I slowed down to 55 mph until it cooled off to 149. It didn't go below that. Many of the other tires were in the 140s.

Then yesterday we saw the even higher temps. I was driving around 60 most of the time. I slowed down to 55 mph, but things did not cool off. And then they crept higher during the last 1/2 hour due to the braking, even though I was going slower.

When we finally got to our destination, the sidewall near the tread was barely warm to the touch, but the wheel itself was very hot. We'd been stopped for several minutes before we touched the tire.

Well thanks for the links - we'll look into it.

Audrey
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Old 05-24-2005, 04:56 PM   #8
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I wonder if breaking in brakes takes a (hopefully short) while w/ some heat generated as a result?
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Old 05-24-2005, 05:43 PM   #9
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What is your cold vs. hot pressures? I am seeing about a 20% increase from cold to hot. Ambient temperature from start of trip to hot makes a big difference. I have went from 32 degrees in the am to 90 degrees in the afternoon going north to south and found my tires to be seriously over inflated and the opposite would occur going the other direction.

Again use it as a tool and not an absolute. 150 degrees would start to concern me. At least you now have a tool to let you know that road conditions are too severe to continue. Just look at the semi tread all over the hi-way.

I am no expert just sharing my experience.
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Old 05-24-2005, 05:48 PM   #10
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I put the smart tire system on mine in the first 100 miles. Never noticed any change as the miles increased. 14,000 now.
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Old 05-26-2005, 05:11 AM   #11
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EngineerMike, I have the rim mounted sensors. I installed basically the same system as is on the 06. To my surprise my install was very close to the 06,antena placement and monitor. When I was at the factory I crawled all over the chassis looking at how they installed the unit. One might have accused me of copying them. I installed mine last October.
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Old 05-26-2005, 05:44 AM   #12
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Mike's analysis is right on and I agree. If your sampling rim temperaturs, it's not indicative of the sidewall, which is important. Another consideration is tire pressure. If a tire is run with lower air pressure, the air (and rubber) in that tire will get hotter. I would experiment by adding 5-10 PSI to the tires and see what kind of temps you come up with. The higher temps may be a result of low inflation pressures.
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Old 05-26-2005, 09:28 AM   #13
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Good point on pressure. Audrey's discussion so far has been on temp, but low pressure will build up heat fast, not to mention ruin tires fast. I assumed the monitoring system read pressure & that Audrey's pressures were set well for coach weight.

Audrey- What pressure are you reading in your fronts/duals?
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Old 05-26-2005, 06:30 PM   #14
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The tires were all inflated to at least 110 PSI when we received the coach. These seem to be near the max range where they should be - with the rear tires actually being overinflated for the load but within the max cold inflation pressure rating for the tire (120).

So we don't think our problems are due to underinflation (and certainly paid attention to that issue first).

When we first start the coach, the VMS reads cold inflation pressures around 110 PSI, but then after an hour of driving the readings increase to be in the 120s.

Our VMS system is set to lower than 110 PSI being "yellow", and lower than 100 being "red".

Apparently the 2006 manual is the first one to list a Tire Inflation Chart so WRV service couldn't answer our questions about it. The table indicates that our rear tires should carry a lower inflation, but we didn't want to make any changes until we got clear answers on this issue.

Thanks for all the input.

Audrey
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