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Old 09-26-2009, 10:19 PM   #1
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HRH system dead

I went to close my slides to head to the Balloon Festival today and the HWH system is dead. I found the the F10 fuse blown in the 625 seris panel it SB a 10 amp but was a 7.5. I replaced the fuse but the system is still dead. No jacks and no slide rooms . I can jump the master relay and pump relay and the pump runs. Luckily my jacks were up I did not use them the past few months due to a slow leak in the right rear.

I suspect the 625 control board is bad since that is what the Quick reference guide says if that particular fuse is blown. I am going to take a shot in the dark and see if i can activate the relays and activate the slides using the switches. I doubt it will work but at this point I am dead until Monday anyhow. I sure hope I can get on the road in time to make Albuquerque by Friday.

Any suggestions on what else to check would be appreciated.
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:07 AM   #2
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Same thing happened to me. Try powering down the system using the battery cutout switches. It will reboot the HWH system. The HWH system is a computer. Hope it works.
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:02 AM   #3
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Wayne,

I assume that you have checked the status of the led's and seen what their status indicates from the Quick reference guide. Have you seen or used this service manual?

http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml41240.pdf
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:36 PM   #4
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Dale,

No lights system dead. Resetting the Vansco system did nothing. While cycling the Vansco did turn output 5 on the PDM on ( power to the slide solenoids I think?) It still was dead. I was able to jumper the master relay and then use a temporary jumper on the pump motor. HWH instructions M195.74 03Sept09 outlines this procedure. With the pump activated the slides would retract when the appropriate switch was pushed.

Problem was the board came alive and smoke poured out, the air dumped and the jacks deployed. I removed F1, F2, F3 and F4 to stop the jacks from extending when I retracted a slide. I was able to retract the jacks by opening the bleed screws. I disconnected the 12 gauge red wire from the master relay and that stopped the unit from going into auto level mode. When I got to Oklahoma City today I was able to deploy the slides using the same method. I did not even mess with the jacks, my site is level..

I will call and order a new 625 control board tomorrow but before I install it I am going to run all trouble shooting steps in the service manual. It appears one of the jack relays is welded closed. I will examine the board closely when I get it out. Mine is facing forward and really hard to see anything.

Until I get the new board I will make up an extension cord with a switch on it so I can deploy the slides myself.
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:55 PM   #5
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Since I am like most of us Alpine owners (particularly when you have a lot of slides and smart beds) and have some concerns about an HWH failure, I bought a spare HWH pump motor. Wayne brought up a problem I hadn't thought of, a control board failure. My biggest concern has always been the large living room slide, I can't imagine getting it back in without hydraulic power. Wayne also made me realize that there is no reason, not to by pass the control.

I am getting 2 solenoid replacement plugs from Mike. I plan on installing them while at home, before the need occurs, giving me 2 spare room/smart bed solenoids. I will then cut off the wiring pigtail that went to the unused solenoid, to make up a "jumper cable" with the electrical plug for the solenoid on one end and clips on the other end to attach to a power source. With this cord I can connect it to the retract solenoid for that slide, power it from the power source at the HWH pump and then jump power to the HWH pump motor and retract the slide, as Wayne did.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:01 PM   #6
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Photos of components and jumps?
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Old 09-29-2009, 05:31 PM   #7
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And I thought I had problems! Deployed my jacks @ Club Walmart and the bedroom slide came out about 4" ON ONE END! Determined (with help) that something was leaking pressure. Tried to order two new solenoids from HWH, was told I would get them in 6 to 8 weeks. Did not want to spend that much time in Idaho Falls this time of year, gave up the trip and headed home. I now have a new name for my coach. It is now called GOLF, it is a love/hate relationship.
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:40 PM   #8
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if that happens again try cycling "house power" not the vansco.... resetting the vansco should have nothing to do with the hwh system.... many times I have seen the HWH boards simply "lock up" and do nothing... simply hard re-booting (disconnecting all 12v. power from unit) will fix the issue 95% of the time.... good luck!
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:18 PM   #9
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Unhappy

I called HWH Monday it will take 2-5 days to build me a new board at a cost of $656. They will repair mine with a worst case scenario of $400-$450 and it will take 5-7 days. I plan on pulling my board Tomorrow and shipping it to them. I will wait and reinstall it when I get to Brownsville for the winter.

Today I made up a push button switch with a long cord so I can run the pump from inside the coach while I deploy or retract the slides. I plan on making up a similar box to run the jacks up and down while I wait on a new board. If I read the wiring digram right I should only need to supply pos and neg to the solenoids along with pump to extend and and just activate the solenoid to retract. I actually could stand to level the coach more tonight side to side but it will have to wait until morning. I like Dales idea of getting the appropriate plug and harness to make up an emergency control box. I probably will just put mine in a large zip lock bag and leave it permanently wired.

I see 2 more Alpines pulled into the camp ground here in Santa Fe today. I will make a point of meeting them tomorrow.
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:27 PM   #10
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I just realized i cant leave the master relay and pump relay tied together when the board is active. No big deal I will just install a plug on the wiring so I can quickly hook it up in the future if needed.
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Old 10-01-2009, 07:48 AM   #11
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I was able to make up a switch box to deploy the jacks and retract them along with dumping the air. I will draw up a diagram and some photos to add to the tech library in case any one else runs into the problem.

Down side is with the board removed the work around will not allow the slides to extend and retract. The jacks still will.

I may try to revive my board myself. I found 2 bad diodes.
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:48 AM   #12
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Wayne,

what is stopping you from powering the retract solenoid along with the motor and retracting the slide?
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:40 PM   #13
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Dale,
It would be easy to retract the slides by doing what you suggest. The issue is extending them. The way my pump assembly is installed I cant get to the extend solenoids. If there even is any (there has to be). the retract solenoids have 2 wires 1 is run to the HWH ground stud and the other to the green plug where 12 volts is applied.. The only function the HWH board has to do with slides is activating the pump and turning on LEDs.
IT dose house interconnecting wires between the slide switches and the solenoids.

I unbolted the assembly and rotated it as much as I could but could not see the extend solenoids. My searches of the HWH site has not provided much wiring information on the slide portion of the 625.
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Old 10-01-2009, 07:09 PM   #14
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Ol Pole- if you have more than 2 SmartBeds, you likely have extra slide/bed solenoids. Some time after the early Apexes, WRV started installing 4-wide manifolds only. If you had 2 slides plus 2 beds, that is 4 manifold positions for extend/retract for 8 solenoids total needed. If you have 2 slides and more than 2 beds, they installed a second 4-wide manifold (8 more solenoid valves) behind the fresh water tank on the basement ceiling. Do the math, check your config and let us know.

Wayne- the 625 only covers the jack operation, "except." The board also lights up when slides or smartbeds are operated, Why? I dunno. No need if they wired the solenoids separately, but they apparently didn't make the two fully divorced.
From a purely electro-hydraulic level, a pumping pump and an open solenoid should operate a slide (either retract or extend) or a SmartBed even if you don't own a $600 board. On my 06 (and others of that vintage I checked at Chula Vista) and on my 08 the solenoid wires end in Dorman "Conduct-Tite" 85390 female 2-terminal plug, which mates to a 85391 male 2-terminal plug. In HWH's 1400 page parts catalog, somewhere around page 1000 (plus or minus 200) they show replacement solenoids for systems going back to the 80's, and they all end in that same female plug. If yours don't, you might want to put in such electrical plugs for convenient R&R. They cost $8 at my local NAPA for each side, $16 for a pair. Or go to single terminal plugs and run all solenoid valves to a single ground stud (extend wires as needed).

The time quote for replacement solenoid valves is going up. I was told 4-6 weeks a couple three weeks ago. Since my rig has 4 extra solenoid valves (and they are now about $170 with shipping), I had a machinist make me some replacement plugs:

These could also be used to plug a solenoid valve hole while a chap sent in a valve to be rebuilt (last quoted at 2 weeks and a bit cheaper than buying a new valve).
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