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Old 09-06-2009, 12:54 PM   #1
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HWH and/or Silverleaf problems

HWH AND OR SILVERLEAF PROBLEMS (SEPT 2009)

1) Several times lately, when operating a Smart Bed or slide, the pump will stick on and will not shut off until DC power is cycled. System then returns to normal operation. Scary until you realize how to stop it. Stuck relay???

2) The galley and dinette slides will not operate from Silverleaf. The pump turns on but the HWH solenoid valve does not open and the pump loads up. Works normally from the rocker switches in the hydraulic bay which makes me suspect a TM102 Silverleaf box problem.

3) We moved today and the jacks would not retract from Silverleaf. I had to manually open the jack solenoid valves to retract them. In the new location, the jacks will not go down in auto level from Silverleaf. Says excess slope but the site is fairly level. They do not move in the manual mode either. I have no way to put them down other than Silverleaf.

QUESTION
Since we have had this coach, when you put the jacks down manually, the pump turns on and off, on and off in short pulses instead of turning on and staying on until you say stop. IS THAT NORMAL????????
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Old 09-06-2009, 03:40 PM   #2
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Basil, cant tell you much of anything about the HWH/Silverleaf interface. Its always scary when electronics stop working after functioning fine for years. Toward the end of an auto leveling cycle, our 2003 does the pulse thing between various jacks to achieve the fine adjustments needed prior to a final level and shut-down. The Silverleaf symptoms sound more like a comm plug has become partly disconnected or Silverleaf has lost/misplaced the HWH software program. Perhaps a reboot/restore or a total power disconnect/reconnect is needed--if that is possible with Silverleaf????? dean
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Old 09-06-2009, 05:21 PM   #3
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Basil-
re: #1- stuck pump relay, the small one. Replace it w/a starter solenoid from a 1965 Ford Falcon Convertible. If you have an spare Cole-Hersee charging solenoid left over from prior junk collections, that is what I'm running on as we speak and it works like a gem. You can also use a solenoid from a Mercury Comet, Mustang, or basically any other Ford starter solenoid obtainable from your local NAPA or AutoZone, or...

re: "when you put the jacks down manually, the pump turns on and off, on and off in short pulses instead of turning on and staying on until you say stop. IS THAT NORMAL????"
Mine doesn't do that on manual or auto. I'm thinking maybe that's the pump solenoid too. Try the Mercury Comet solenoid and see if that cures the herkey-jerkey.

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Old 09-07-2009, 02:08 AM   #4
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Basil, my S/L acted similar to yours right after we purchased the coach, soon nothing would work through it. Called S/L tech support and they told me that the outside temp sensor had shorted to ground. It's located in the tank bay, on the PS side, it goes through the floor and it's not hard to see. Try just disconnecting it from the main S/L computer. Make sure all power is off on the coach. Once that shorted sensor is out of the loop, things might get back to normal. I posted a fix about this right after it happened and S/L walked me through replacement. Then I figured out a better way to install the sensor, and have not had problems since.

You can also try these two things to see if it works.

1. Power off coach with main disconnects, count to 30 like seconds, turn main switches back on, see if this fixes it.

2. Power off coach, then push the reset on your Xantrex Inverter, that should cause it to reboot, and that will hopefully get you back on the road.

I am assuming you have the Xantrex system, if not forget #2.

You can also call S/L on Tuesday, but you are having trouble now, so hopefully number 1 will get you rolling or in this case leveled anyway. I don’t know how to diagnose relays, or solenoids so the post earlier should be helpful.
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Old 09-07-2009, 07:49 AM   #5
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Old RV'er & Scout:Good suggestion to cycle DC power to reset the TM102 Silverleaf computer. We have used this method to clear other HWH/Silverleaf control problems many times and is always my first action. We disconnected the temp sensor back in May after it shorted and took out my TM102 computer processor. I strongly suggest all Apex owners disconnect it. It does nothing but give an outside temp reading on the TV screen which we never used anyway. Reads 32 degrees when disconnected.

E-Mike: I will look around for a 1965 Ford Falcon convertible. Actually, I carry a spare charging solenoid, not a Cole-Hersee but with equivalent specs. I have three solenoids in the hydraulic compartment. I think one is a WRV installation since the coil is connected to the 8 relays they used for the touch pad control of the Smart Beds. The other two must be HWH but I don't know which does what.
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:34 AM   #6
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Basil- hope you can dope it out somewhat as follows:
The pump takes signal from a switch (which in touchpad's case sounds like switch/relay or maybe switch/relay/solenoid) to the Main Solenoid & Pump Solenoid. On mine the Main & Pump are connected one to the other on the large contacts. So if something powers the Main- it will allow high amp 12V to the input large stud of the Pump Solenoid, and then another signal closes the large Pump Solenoid's contacts to run the pump.

On the Apex's you may have another solenoid dedicated to the touch pads, like a second PS or second MS? It was the early design so I'm speculating. One post on another thread stated the SB's were wired by WRV entirely divorced from the HWH electronics. Do I recall incorrectly the Apex has 2 pumps? If so, maybe 2 PS's, one for each?

So to figure out which is the PS, take one of the small wires off a solenoid, then run a bed using a rocker switch. When you find the one that doesn't work the pump, that's the PS for the rocker switches; you could repeat that for touch pads. Replace that PS w/the Ford Falcon Convertible Solenoid (FFCS) & see how much that cures.

One thing about FFCS's- I've gotten great duty out of them; they go for tens of thousands of starts before trouble. Probably not too spendy either.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:48 PM   #7
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Hmmm, the FFCS, I am assuming is the start solenoid on the side of the engine compartment? If it's another one then clue me into where it was, as I had a 64 FF, and thought I fixed everything on it one time or another.
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:53 AM   #8
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If you saved a spare solenoid off the side of engine compartment then you have a spare pump solenoid already. Otherwise you have to buy a junk Falcon out of somebody's yard or else buy a new replacement from aformentioned parts sources. But yes, that's the FF start solenoid of which I spake.
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:23 AM   #9
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Basil,

On my Apex, i have the same issue when in manual mode from the TV with the pulsing of the pump, however, if I use the small monitor for manual mode, it works normaly. Thus, I do not use the TV for manual mode. Be interested to hear what you learn.
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:03 PM   #10
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EM- Do they fail a lot? I am more concerned about my sur-flow water pump failing, so was going to pack one of those. I guess I will cross that bridge when I get there, and I hope not too soon.
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:14 AM   #11
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The OEM pump solenoid is a fairly cheap gizmo, and it fails way more than a FFCS in my experience. I'm already running on my Cole-Hersee replacement in a coach that's 2 years old. Seems lightweight to me.
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:01 AM   #12
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We spent about 4 hours at HWH. They removed the control box and took it into the factory where they say they reprogrammed it although I think they also did some repairs. This cleared up all my problems except the sticking pump soleniod which I will address when we get to Palm Springs for the winter. They charged me for one hour of labor $75. What a great company!!!!!!
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