Community Forums

Audrey & John · 11-29-2005, 05:04 AM

We had our first freezing night. Of course the air outside was a still as could be - that's why it got down to 25 degrees.

Well we can hardly stand to run our Hydro Hot on diesel. It's smelly! Maybe some of the exhaust comes in between the slides somehow? Not sure.

We really don't like smelling the fumes and wondering what we are breathing. Both of us have rather sensitive noses - especially John.

Anyone else have a problem with smells in the coach when using their hydro hot on diesel?

Do you think this is a problem with our hydro hot unit? Or is it a problem with venting or sealing of our coach?

Our exhaust has a tip/extension that points down, so maybe the exhaust doesn't get vented away. And when it is still - like it usually is when it gets really cold - I guess the exhaust cloud just lingers next to our coach.

Well, please let us know if and how your experience differs and if you have any advice.

Thanks

Audrey

Audrey & John · 11-29-2005, 05:04 AM

We had our first freezing night. Of course the air outside was a still as could be - that's why it got down to 25 degrees.

Well we can hardly stand to run our Hydro Hot on diesel. It's smelly! Maybe some of the exhaust comes in between the slides somehow? Not sure.

We really don't like smelling the fumes and wondering what we are breathing. Both of us have rather sensitive noses - especially John.

Anyone else have a problem with smells in the coach when using their hydro hot on diesel?

Do you think this is a problem with our hydro hot unit? Or is it a problem with venting or sealing of our coach?

Our exhaust has a tip/extension that points down, so maybe the exhaust doesn't get vented away. And when it is still - like it usually is when it gets really cold - I guess the exhaust cloud just lingers next to our coach.

Well, please let us know if and how your experience differs and if you have any advice.

Thanks

Audrey

Lyle & Cath · 11-29-2005, 06:31 AM

Good morning Audrey,
We only have a week or so experience in our Apex and all of it has been well below freezing. We have not experienced the "smell" but the tip on our unit points out away from the coach. Might be something there because I did notice that on one of those dead still nights the exhaust was rolling away from the coach. It is easy to change the direction of the tip just by loosening a couple of screws.
Good luck,

Lyle

1st Apex off the line

skyguy62 · 11-29-2005, 06:33 AM

Initially we did not have a problem with exhaust smell; but with low airflow out of heat ducks. After having work done at the factory: shortening and straighting flexible ducts and having the exhaust pipe twisted away from the tire; the odor has become noticeble. The biggest impact seems to be in the lav. I am going to try caulking around all entry points (wires, water lines,and air ducts in the top area of the compartment that the hydro-hot is in.
Next I wonder if "Vehicle Systems" offer any extensions to the exhaust pipe.

EngineerMike · 11-29-2005, 10:31 AM

The HHot burner is supposed to be sealed against the interior (all make up air & combustion exhaust enclosed w/in combustion chamber/heat exchanger/exhaust). IIWY, I'd let the air clear inside & out (open basement & blow out w/a fan if necessary), then close all & just after firing up the burner, crawl inside the basement from the passenger side to see if there is a leak of some sort into the basement. W/all the holes cut between basement & interior for plumbing, wiring, & vents, total sealing isn't possible, so fumes in the basement will get into the coach.
If you smell diesel in the basement, there's a problem. Might be fuel leak, might be exhaust leak.

Chet Yancey · 11-30-2005, 04:48 AM

Hi Audry and John,
Enjoyed meeting you two, finally. I wanted to pass on to you that Wayne R. has a nifty way of directing the exhaust up above the coach and as long as you don't have an exhaust leak in the basement area it may be the solution to your problem. You might want to touch base with him to see if it will work for you. That is of course after you have made sure no exhaust leaks exist in the basement area.
Good luck, Chet

Wayne R · 11-30-2005, 02:27 PM

What I found was that the combination of a poorly sealing bay door and 2 open 3/8" holes that should have been used to bolt the HH frame. There was plenty of opportunity for the HH exhaust to find its way into the bay. The other issue on mine was the exit point of the exhaust was below the bedroom slide when it was extended. The results were with no wind or a light wind blowing at the left side of the MH, HH exhaust would find its way into the coach, especially the bedroom.

My solution was to modify a GenTuri exhaust system to route the exhaust above the coach. I had a 2-foot piece of exhaust pipe bent and expanded to adapt the GenTuri to my HH exhaust. Now all the smell goes above the coach. I drilled ¼ inch hole in the exhaust pipe and use a pin to secure it to the pipe. The total pipe length to the GenTuri is far less than the maximum allowed by HH and the GenTuri itself adds no additional backpressure. I got the idea at DRR last January, where at least 2 other Alpines had a similar setup. Some make their own but I liked the GenTuri design and tote bag. I also have one for the generator for those tight boon-docking situations.

Audrey & John · 11-30-2005, 04:48 PM

Thanks for all the ideas so far!

John tried repositioning the exhaust tip, but unfortunately the screws holding it are too tight!

I notice that on some other coaches the exhaust tip is more angled, not straight. Both angled away from the ground and cut at a 45 degree angle on the tip.

John has smelled some exhaust inside the basement - but we aren't sure how it got in there.

We have several things to investigate now. We'll talk to Vehicle Systems and to WRV.

I've even thought of setting a fan outside to blow the exhaust in an optimal direction LOL!

Audrey

Audrey & John · 11-30-2005, 05:58 PM

Oh - I should add something...

The venting in our bath area in the Alpine Coach has always seemed kind of odd to me. There is a vent underneath out shower that appears to be open to the compartment holding the tanks below.

Well, we can run the Fantastic Fan in the bathroom or toilet (or kitchen) and have sufficient air flow to keep the fan motor happy (not whining) WITH NO WINDOWS OPEN. This surprised me very much. Our previous RV (a trailer) was so airtight that you HAD to have a window open a few inches or else the fan would whine to let you know it was struggling to create the air flow.

Our Coach doesn't appear to be very airtight at all. I've wondered if it was the shower vent, but maybe it's just an accumulation of little gaps and holes here and there.

Now it's great most of the year when you need the bathroom to dry out quickly. But I wonder that is causing a problem now.

Audrey

Cruzer · 12-01-2005, 05:04 AM

I don't know if your Alpine is the same as my Itasca was but my Suncruiser also had the grill underneath the shower. However, it went to the other side, near the dining booth rather than down into the basement. It served to help pass return air between the bedroom and front section of coach when the sliding door was closed. Otherwise the heat would run but there'd be no way to effectively get it into the bedroom area because the only cold air return was in the front half of the coach. This crossover duct served to equalize the pressure. On my Suncruiser and Allegro Bus, cracking a window open makes a huge difference in the Fantastic fan operation so I believe you must have some opening someplace if your's runs fine with them closed.

Alpine Maker · 12-01-2005, 02:52 PM

Audrey,

The grill on the face of the shower is the heat duct for either the furnace or the Hydro Hot (HH). Under the shower is a plenum area created by sealing the shower supports to the floor with an adhesive backed foam seal. The duct from the furnace or HH heat exchanger "floods" the plenum and the hot air exits through the grill. This design is similar to those found in residential kitchen cabinets where the air exits over the toe plate. The benefit to the air flooding the area under the shower floor is the warming effect to the floor when the heating system is operating.

Air infiltration through both intended and unintended openings is the reason the Fantastic Fans do not starve. Intended openings include the 30+ window weep holes, the dryer vent (if equipped with the optional vented W/D) and possibly the dash air conditioner/heater/vent fresh air intake. Slide-outs can be the biggest culprit. Triple slide models have approximatly 90 feet of perimeter seal, quads have over 120 feet. Considering the number of linear feet even the small gaps add up. Other obvious areas that air can infiltrate are windows (pane dividers/felt seals), vent seals, entry door and wire/plumbing/heating duct penetrations into the basement area.

FYI – WRV just received approval to exhaust the Hydro Hot out the rear of the coach. This required testing due to the length of the run and the number of bends. The new exhaust system debuted on the new Apex and will be included on all future coaches produced with a Hydro Hot. Retrofit parts available through WRV at 509.457.4133.

Hope this info helps.

EngineerMike · 12-01-2005, 03:58 PM

Interesting about exhaust out the back- I had a conversation w/Mike Glazier when we PDI'd our coach in Aug. about what appeared to me as a silly default position for the exhaust, since it drops so far from the coach floor at 90 degrees to the direction of thrown-recap travel. Looks like a convenient place for a recap to grab on, just in time for the rear tire to yank it rearward, maybe along w/the exhaust pipe as an added source of exhilaration. We looked @ options for further routing to a less susceptible location. Also I noted they could buy a one piece muffler pipe section, bent to their specs @ a local shop, instead of the heavy threaded pipe sections now used. Maybe save money, definitely save weight.
If its a muffler pipe retro, I'm in. Thanks for the post, AM.

Wayne R · 12-01-2005, 04:12 PM

Since they didn't use anti seize on the short piece of pipe coming out of the HH unit or on the elbow, retrofit may turn out to be very expensive.

Audrey & John · 12-02-2005, 02:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alpine Maker:
Audrey,

The grill on the face of the shower is the heat duct for either the furnace or the Hydro Hot (HH). Under the shower is a plenum area created by sealing the shower supports to the floor with an adhesive backed foam seal. The duct from the furnace or HH heat exchanger "floods" the plenum and the hot air exits through the grill. This design is similar to those found in residential kitchen cabinets where the air exits over the toe plate. The benefit to the air flooding the area under the shower floor is the warming effect to the floor when the heating system is operating. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There does not appear to be any hot air flow through that shower grill at all. I may not have understood your post correctly.

Very interesting about the change in routing of the hydro hot exhaust! We have a factory visit scheduled for August of 2006. We'll have to look into this. We are about to call WRV about our hydro-hot smell.

I was kind of wondering why the exhaust wasn't routed to our passenger side since we have no slides and no hook-up connections on that side (36 ft). I've seen other RVs with exhaust on the passenger side.