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Old 07-14-2010, 11:55 PM   #1
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Inverter problem

After a recent vacation, I have to turn on my inverter for my coffee maker, front TV and microwave to work even while the generator is running. Before this vacation I did not have to turn on inverter on the remote panel. Also I noticed when I got back home and plugged in my RV that I can't turn on the charger like I use to be able to do? I have a 2001 38 fdds Model with 19,000 miles on it...b Thanks in advance. Oh yeah I also lost my transfer switch during this trip, would that be related?
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Old 07-15-2010, 01:01 AM   #2
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We are having the opposite problem, our front a/c , refer, and water heater don't work. I found a burned wire in the TS.

Sounds like if you had a new TS put in, someone may have wired it wrong. I'll bet the rear a/c doesn't work either.

IMNO (in my neophyte opinion) You are missing one leg of the two legs making 50 amps.

The smart ones on the forum will be here soon. TCRCAM (they can run circles around me) EM taught me that.
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Old 07-15-2010, 01:35 AM   #3
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Tom:

Each leg of 120 volts can handle 50 amps. But you may be on the right track since the A/Cs are run on two different (opposite) legs.

Most coaches are set up to run everything off one leg except the second A/C. That way, when you are hooked up to 30 amp (only one leg), you get everything but one A/C. Energy Management Systems can trade off one A/C for the other, usually by redirecting the power that normally passes through the inverter untouched, to the circuit that has only the second A/C.
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Old 07-15-2010, 02:12 AM   #4
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When you connect to a 120 volt, 30 amp power to the 120 volt 50 amp power cord we must use an adapter. The RV adapters that we use to go from the 30 amp to the 50 amp cord contain an internal jumper, so that the one leg of 120 volts 30 amps is connected to both legs when it gets to the coach.

I hope this makes sense.
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:18 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcfisher View Post
After a recent vacation, I have to turn on my inverter for my coffee maker, front TV and microwave to work even while the generator is running. Before this vacation I did not have to turn on inverter on the remote panel. Also I noticed when I got back home and plugged in my RV that I can't turn on the charger like I use to be able to do? I have a 2001 38 fdds Model with 19,000 miles on it...b Thanks in advance. Oh yeah I also lost my transfer switch during this trip, would that be related?
I agree with the other comments; it's likely that the transfer switch is miswired. TRANSFER SWITCH! TRANSFER SWITCH! I'm turning into a Johnny-one-note.
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:07 PM   #6
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jcf:

Have you found the problem? We're dying out here.........
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Old 07-17-2010, 10:32 AM   #7
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Not yet but I'm getting close. After using my fluke multi meter and opening up one side of the inverter I found a blown fuse in the inverter, I have now gotten on xantrex's web site and was able to find a troubleshooting guide that is very helpfull. It says that their is a internal transfer swith built into the inverter and that this fuse is connected to that. But I also found out which is very interesting to all Alpine owners that the xantrex 458 negative post should not be grounded to the frame of the motorhome. But thats how mine was wired from the factory. I also found that the TSC cable that comes from the inverter should be hooked to the + cable but mine is hooked to the - side, that also was wired from factory llike that. Does anyone know the answer to this. All of my house batteries which are 4-6 volt batteries are connected to the starter batteries which are 2-12 volt batteries. To where there is no seperation of the 12 volts between them. Not sure if this is how it is suppose to be.. I use to have a 1993 Holiday Rambler and there was a solenoid between them to connect if needed for starting problems. Thanks
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:51 AM   #8
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It sounds like someone changed your battery wiring. My 2002 coach was wired like the the diagram below, with the inverter negative line going directly to the batteries.

http://alpinecoachassociation.com/ch...%20Wriring.pdf

My present coach has the inverter grounded.

Your initial problem sounds like either no power to the inverter or the fuse you found bad.
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by jcfisher View Post
Not yet but I'm getting close. After using my fluke multi meter and opening up one side of the inverter I found a blown fuse in the inverter, I have now gotten on xantrex's web site and was able to find a troubleshooting guide that is very helpfull. It says that their is a internal transfer swith built into the inverter and that this fuse is connected to that. But I also found out which is very interesting to all Alpine owners that the xantrex 458 negative post should not be grounded to the frame of the motorhome. But thats how mine was wired from the factory. I also found that the TSC cable that comes from the inverter should be hooked to the + cable but mine is hooked to the - side, that also was wired from factory llike that. Does anyone know the answer to this. All of my house batteries which are 4-6 volt batteries are connected to the starter batteries which are 2-12 volt batteries. To where there is no seperation of the 12 volts between them. Not sure if this is how it is suppose to be.. I use to have a 1993 Holiday Rambler and there was a solenoid between them to connect if needed for starting problems. Thanks
Only the older Alpines have Freedom (modified sine wave) inverters. Newer Alpines have pure sine wave inverters (RS 2000 and RS 3000 for a while; don't know about the latest models.) Your information applies to Freedom inverters in older Alpines (note that the TSC is red, which should be a clue.) The newer inverters should have the BTS either glued to the battery or mounted on the NEGATIVE post, per the owner's manual. I didn't find the Xantrex information on grounding of RV's; for boats they seem to say that it should definitely be grounded, despite the complication of galvanic corrosion. The reason for grounding the inverter to the chassis is to ensure that the shore circuit breaker will trip if there is a breakdown within the inverter, rather than leaving the chassis (boat hull) energized waiting for someone to complete the 120V path to ground through their body. Can you find the link to where Xantrex says don't ground it? (Note: this is not the same as not grounding the neutral wire in your shore power cord, which is transfer switch wiring.)
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:23 PM   #10
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Frank,

What I, and I think jcfisher, was referring to, is the cable from the inverter. On my '02, the inverter is connected directly to the battery negative post and the battery negative post is grounded. I just looked back and see that the diagram from WRV, I posted doesn't show the ground from the batteries to the chassis, which in fact is required and present.

On my '07, the inverter negative cable and the batteries negative cable is grounded to a post inside the chassis rail. On these coaches, disconnecting the house batteries ground, will not disable the inverter and any problems with the connections at that post will result in a voltage drop to the inverter.
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:48 PM   #11
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Thanks for the wiring diagram. I'm going to change mine per: the diagram, Do you all think that would be OK on a 2001. I have one other question because this diagram didn't show it. I have a 6 inch terminal block in my battery compartment (aluminum blocks with lugs) and that is where all of these Positive wires are connected together from house batteries and chassis batteries. I attatched the document from Xantrex which says the Negtice should be hooked up to the battery terminal it is on page 27. thanks
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File Type: pdf xantrex.pdf (594.0 KB, 27 views)
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Old 07-17-2010, 01:14 PM   #12
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The coaches in that year range had too many cables on the positive house battery bank rear battery. This caused problems and many owners changed to the buss bar like you have. Just change the diagram, so that your buss bar (minus the chassis cable) is the place where all of the cables are connected to the house batteries, with an additional cable from the actual battery to the buss bar. The chassis and house battery banks should not be connected together, without a relay or isolator between them. If it were mine, I would connect the inverter negative cable directly to the house batteries. As I stated above, the cable from the batteries negative post to the chassis ground is not shown and is necessary. The diagram is also missing the solenoid that jumps the 2 banks for emergencies .
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Old 07-17-2010, 01:51 PM   #13
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I appreciate all your help on here. I'm going to rewire and put in a new fuse after I get off work and let you know tomorrow what happens...
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Old 07-17-2010, 02:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcfisher View Post
Thanks for the wiring diagram. I'm going to change mine per: the diagram, Do you all think that would be OK on a 2001. I have one other question because this diagram didn't show it. I have a 6 inch terminal block in my battery compartment (aluminum blocks with lugs) and that is where all of these Positive wires are connected together from house batteries and chassis batteries. I attatched the document from Xantrex which says the Negtice should be hooked up to the battery terminal it is on page 27. thanks
Okay, now I understand what you were saying; and I completely agree with Dale. My Alpine does indeed have a rat's nest at the positive terminals of both the house and chassis batteries and your arrangement sounds like a real improvement. I bet that the 6 inch terminal block has two separate buss bars, one for the chassis and one for the house batteries. There should not be a direct connection between the positive terminals of the house and chassis batteries.
Also, my Alpine, and probably yours as well, is equipped with an Echo Charge, as shown on the schematic, so that the chassis battery will be charged by the Freedom converter. If you don't have the Echo Charger, you need something else, perhaps a battery isolator, to ensure the chassis batteries get charged when you're running on AC (either generator or shore power.)
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