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Old 06-18-2007, 08:50 AM   #1
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Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 105
Cummins has issued a recall on the ISL engines and there are over 2000 in rv applications. It hits Monoco, frieghtliner and Spartan Chassies as well as a few of Country Coaches and 9 foretravels.
I woiuld hate to be the second owner on one of these or own one after the 5 year warranty is done...

Here is the memo:

May 18,2007
Associate Administrator for Enforcement
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
400 Seventh Street, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20590
Dear Sir or Madam:
The following information is submitted in accordance with the National Highway
Traffic Safety Administration's reporting regulations, 49 CFR Part 5 73.6.
Cummins Inc. (Cummins) has decided that there is a potential safety-related defect with
respect to connecting rods in ISL CM850 diesel engines manufactured by Cummins and
installed as original equipment in those motor vehicles identified below.
1. Product identification and customer channels.
This defect involves Cummins ISL CMS5O diesel engines produced for recreational
vehicle applications between October 17,2005 and April 18, 2006. There are 2 159
engines in the subject population that we intend to campaign.
All ISL CM850 engines in the subject population are covered by this recall. The ISL
CM850 recreational vehicle ESNs eligible for this campaign range from 46543077 to
46603939. A complete listing of the subject populations by vehicle manufacturer is
attached in Appendix A.
2. Identification of the item: Connecting Rod
Engine Make: Cummins
Model: ISL CM850
Part Number: 3971 393
Function: Transmit energy from the piston to the crankshaft
3. Estimated extent of defect population.
Cummins estimates that approximately 3 3% of the subject population of engines could
experience a connecting rod failure. Cummins will pursue a 100% recall on all engines
in the subject population.
Cummins notes that the Company has voluntarily decided to conduct this recall.
Cummins Inc.
500 Jackson Street
Columbl~sI,N 47201 LISA
Phone 18123775000
cummins.com
07E-033
(4 pages)
4. Description of defect.
The connecting rod contains a machining defect in the wrist pin bushing of the rod that
could cause a seizure of the piston pin, which if allowed to progress, can lead to engine
failure with the possibility of the rod rupturing the block cavity, oil and debris on the
roadway and vehicle crash.
5. Chronology of events.
Over the later months of 2006, Cummins received reports of ISL CM850 engine failures
of recreational vehicles in the field. The failures were occurring on ISL CM850 engines
built after October 1 7, 2005.
In response to these reports, Cummins Service Engineering and Cummins Product
Engineering investigated the failures and coordinated problem solving activities. On
May 11, 2007, these activities led to a management decision to conduct a safety
campaign on ISL CM850 recreational vehicle engines built between October 17,2005
and April 18,2006.
To date, Cummins is not aware of any injuries, fatalities, or crashes that were the result
of this defect. It is estimated that approximately 3.8% of the subject population could
experience an engine failure.
6. Remedy program.
Cummins will recalibrate the engine control module. Additionally, Cummins will
enhance the Engine Protection System enabling it to provide early detection of the
failure mode and avoid more serious engine damage and resultant safety hazard. This
will involve installation of a new valve cover with a crankcase pressure sensor. Prior to
failure, the new crankcase pressure sensor will provide a signal to the dash with a red
light. A red lamp gives an indication to the driver to stop the engine as soon as it can
safely be done The campaign will be completed without charge to engine owners.
Cummins notes and emphasizes that all covered vehicles involved in the campaign were
sold with a 5- year or 100,000 mile warranty and are estimated to have extensive
warranty coverage remaining on these engines to cover future repairs as needed.
7. Part 577 notice letter.
The customer notice letter is in the process of being prepared and will be submitted in
draft to the agency as soon as possible.
8. Conduct of recall campaign.
Subject to concurrence of its OEM customers, Cummins will be conducting the
respective recalls with the customers of each OEM.
9. Customer/owner notifications.
Notifications are expected to begin in July 2007, once Cummins is in receipt of the
OEM recall authorizations and customer lists.
Please advise the undersigned of the recall campaign number assigned by the Office of
Defects Investigation to this recall. Cummins campaign code for this recall will be
C0713.
Sincerely yours,
Steven R. Butler
Director - Product Safety
Phone: 812-377-3713
Fax: 8 12-377-3265
E-mail : steven.r. butler@cummins.com
Appendix A
OEM No. of Engines
Country Coach 94
Foretravel 9
Freightliner Custom Chassis 666
Monaco 818
Spartan 499
Western RV 58
Cummins Distributors 15
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Old 06-18-2007, 08:50 AM   #2
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 105
Cummins has issued a recall on the ISL engines and there are over 2000 in rv applications. It hits Monoco, frieghtliner and Spartan Chassies as well as a few of Country Coaches and 9 foretravels.
I woiuld hate to be the second owner on one of these or own one after the 5 year warranty is done...

Here is the memo:

May 18,2007
Associate Administrator for Enforcement
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
400 Seventh Street, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20590
Dear Sir or Madam:
The following information is submitted in accordance with the National Highway
Traffic Safety Administration's reporting regulations, 49 CFR Part 5 73.6.
Cummins Inc. (Cummins) has decided that there is a potential safety-related defect with
respect to connecting rods in ISL CM850 diesel engines manufactured by Cummins and
installed as original equipment in those motor vehicles identified below.
1. Product identification and customer channels.
This defect involves Cummins ISL CMS5O diesel engines produced for recreational
vehicle applications between October 17,2005 and April 18, 2006. There are 2 159
engines in the subject population that we intend to campaign.
All ISL CM850 engines in the subject population are covered by this recall. The ISL
CM850 recreational vehicle ESNs eligible for this campaign range from 46543077 to
46603939. A complete listing of the subject populations by vehicle manufacturer is
attached in Appendix A.
2. Identification of the item: Connecting Rod
Engine Make: Cummins
Model: ISL CM850
Part Number: 3971 393
Function: Transmit energy from the piston to the crankshaft
3. Estimated extent of defect population.
Cummins estimates that approximately 3 3% of the subject population of engines could
experience a connecting rod failure. Cummins will pursue a 100% recall on all engines
in the subject population.
Cummins notes that the Company has voluntarily decided to conduct this recall.
Cummins Inc.
500 Jackson Street
Columbl~sI,N 47201 LISA
Phone 18123775000
cummins.com
07E-033
(4 pages)
4. Description of defect.
The connecting rod contains a machining defect in the wrist pin bushing of the rod that
could cause a seizure of the piston pin, which if allowed to progress, can lead to engine
failure with the possibility of the rod rupturing the block cavity, oil and debris on the
roadway and vehicle crash.
5. Chronology of events.
Over the later months of 2006, Cummins received reports of ISL CM850 engine failures
of recreational vehicles in the field. The failures were occurring on ISL CM850 engines
built after October 1 7, 2005.
In response to these reports, Cummins Service Engineering and Cummins Product
Engineering investigated the failures and coordinated problem solving activities. On
May 11, 2007, these activities led to a management decision to conduct a safety
campaign on ISL CM850 recreational vehicle engines built between October 17,2005
and April 18,2006.
To date, Cummins is not aware of any injuries, fatalities, or crashes that were the result
of this defect. It is estimated that approximately 3.8% of the subject population could
experience an engine failure.
6. Remedy program.
Cummins will recalibrate the engine control module. Additionally, Cummins will
enhance the Engine Protection System enabling it to provide early detection of the
failure mode and avoid more serious engine damage and resultant safety hazard. This
will involve installation of a new valve cover with a crankcase pressure sensor. Prior to
failure, the new crankcase pressure sensor will provide a signal to the dash with a red
light. A red lamp gives an indication to the driver to stop the engine as soon as it can
safely be done The campaign will be completed without charge to engine owners.
Cummins notes and emphasizes that all covered vehicles involved in the campaign were
sold with a 5- year or 100,000 mile warranty and are estimated to have extensive
warranty coverage remaining on these engines to cover future repairs as needed.
7. Part 577 notice letter.
The customer notice letter is in the process of being prepared and will be submitted in
draft to the agency as soon as possible.
8. Conduct of recall campaign.
Subject to concurrence of its OEM customers, Cummins will be conducting the
respective recalls with the customers of each OEM.
9. Customer/owner notifications.
Notifications are expected to begin in July 2007, once Cummins is in receipt of the
OEM recall authorizations and customer lists.
Please advise the undersigned of the recall campaign number assigned by the Office of
Defects Investigation to this recall. Cummins campaign code for this recall will be
C0713.
Sincerely yours,
Steven R. Butler
Director - Product Safety
Phone: 812-377-3713
Fax: 8 12-377-3265
E-mail : steven.r. butler@cummins.com
Appendix A
OEM No. of Engines
Country Coach 94
Foretravel 9
Freightliner Custom Chassis 666
Monaco 818
Spartan 499
Western RV 58
Cummins Distributors 15
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Old 06-18-2007, 03:23 PM   #3
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My engine build date IIRC is May, 2005, and we took delivery of the coach in Aug, 2005, about a 3 month delay.
Azzuming the same formula for coach launch vs. build date, that'd be approx. Jan 2006 to July's coach delivery dates for the 58 Alpines (including some dealer inventory I'd guess).

I can't say that I'm impressed w/the "Remedy Program" where they monitor your engine for signs of total catastrophic failure, whereby it leaves you randomly stranded by the side of the road, at a moment's notice, in an I-need-a-tow-and-my-travel-plans-are-shot-till-I-get-my-engine-rebuilt-or-replaced mode, courtesy of Cummins. Seems like that ain't much courtesy for a failure of the precise reliability reason that we pay thru the nose for a high end diesel power plant. That's 2159 coaches w/a massive problem for resale; I'd certainly never buy one unless the problem was actually fixed. If I was affected, I would join w/the other 2158 screwee's and lean on Cummins to fix their busted recall "Remedy."

Pretty good advertising for Caterpillar, IMO.
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:20 PM   #4
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That's a lot of engines.
Ever hear of a "Class Action" suit?

GM went through exactly that when they built 5.7 Liter diesels using a warmed-over 5.7 Liter Spark ignition engine. Part of their remedy was to replace the Diesels with Gas engines and pay the Customer a goodly sum.

The major problems with the Stanadyne injector system didn't help GM's cause either.
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:46 PM   #5
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I dont recognise the engine model #s specified. However our engine was mfg b4 the 05 date. So we are not effected. However, I have never heard of a factory remedy for a potentialily defective con rod to put a pressure sensor on the engine and connect that to a light on the dash so that you can pull over before the rod goes thru the side of the block. I am really disapointed in the Cummins Engine Company
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Old 06-19-2007, 09:33 PM   #6
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">To date, Cummins is not aware of any injuries, fatalities, or crashes that were the result
of this defect. It is estimated that approximately 3.8% of the subject population could
experience an engine failure.
6. Remedy program. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

3.8% failure rate at very low mileage usually under 5,000 miles. If you have over 5,000 miles your chance of failure is next to none. Most failures occured in Fire Truck applications (fast start and drive conditions). There has not been any failures in Alpine Coach applications. If your one of the 58 Alpine Coach owners, you will be contacted by Cummins on or after July 9th 2007. Check your engine serial number. If it is within this number range 46543077 to 46603939 you will be contacted by Cummins. The sky is not falling.
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:58 AM   #7
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My first engine was one of those effected and forced me to spend a month in San Angelo Tx. till they could get me a new engine. My new engine is also within the recall numbers. I have over 23,000 on the new engine and keep looking over my shoulder for problems. Have to tell you that when one of these blow, back of coach, tow vehicle, road, side of road, grass and everything within 5ft. of coach when it blows will be covered with almost twenty qts. of oil.
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Old 06-20-2007, 09:20 AM   #8
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Monkey- I understand the cute bit about the sky, but I'll stand by my earlier statement- "That's 2159 coaches w/a massive problem for resale; I'd certainly never buy one unless the problem was actually fixed," and I'll wager a good sum that word gets around in the diesel-pusher resale market, making these units dead inventory.

What moron would knowingly buy a coach w/that sort of pedigree? What dealer would knowingly floor one?

And for that matter, what bone-headed engine company would assemble engines without component QA/QC to limit outrageous customer catastrophes to less than a tiny fraction of a percent? I'm not a QA-tutored guy, but I'm pretty sure that 3.8% explosive catastrophic breakdowns exceeds reasonably achievable standards by well over an order of magnitude, and probably close to two. In engineering vernacular we'd call that... hmmm, this website would bleep out what we'd call that, so lets just say its asstronomically idotic, and if heads don't roll @ Cummins then stuff like this will become the norm and Cat will become the new RV engine standard.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:12 AM   #9
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From an Industrial QA standpoint, an unnacceptale rate was greater than 1% a number of years ago. That has dropped to less than 1% in recent years, depending upon product class and cost. However, that was for final inspection and warranty claims only.

An acceptable rate for a possible catastrophic failure that has potential for creating a danger to life or limb does not exist in my experience.

Although I've been around Automotive, Agricultural, Mining, Industrial and Aerospace manufacturing for many years in numerous Engineering and Management positions, I personally do not understand how the Cummins approach to this problem will be an effective solution. If I apply whatever I've learned from my experiences, the Cummins "Campaign" appears to be an eyewash/earwash maneuver.

In my qualifed opinion, Cummins has effectively killed the market for any product having the questionable product line; whether within the identified 'problem' spectrum or not.

I'd venture a guess we'll see a new model line in the not too distant future.
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Old 06-23-2007, 08:21 PM   #10
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Sounds like Cummins may be taking a cue from Microsoft?
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Old 06-24-2007, 02:41 AM   #11
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I spoke with Mike Young from Cummins on Friday and he indicated that all people with the affected engines will be contacted sometime in July. His indication was to wait for your notification to see how Cummins is going to handle this situation. When you get your notification you will know exactly what will take place to correct the situation.
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:06 PM   #12
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ISL Recall (58 Alpines affected)

We have previously been advised that Cummins built 2,159 Model CM 850 ISL engines with ser.#s 46543077 to 46603939 between 10/17/05 and 4/18/06 with wrist pin defects. Of those 58 were sold to WRV and presumably installed.

Does anyone have any info re which of the numerous 06s built contain the 58 defective engines? If so, what are those Unit (not engine) ser. #s. Does anyone have any info re which units have had their engines rebuilt? If so, which ones?For any of us who may be considering purchase of a preowned 06, would be really great to know which units to pursue and which ones that have not been rebuilt/replaced to avoid, particularly since the 5 yr. time limit of the warranty has come and gone!

I have attempted to review the other related threads to see how this situation resolved itself, but I don,t seem to find and info subsequent to the impending issuance of recall letters in7/07. How was this recall actually resolved?Have there been any major engine problems?
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterdog4315 View Post
We have previously been advised that Cummins built 2,159 Model CM 850 ISL engines with ser.#s 46543077 to 46603939 between 10/17/05 and 4/18/06 with wrist pin defects. Of those 58 were sold to WRV and presumably installed. Does anyone have any info re which of the numerous 06s built contain the 58 defective engines? If so, what are those Unit (not engine) ser. #s. Does anyone have any info re which units have had their engines rebuilt? If so, which ones?For any of us who may be considering purchase of a preowned 06, would be really great to know which units to pursue and which ones that have not been rebuilt/replaced to avoid, particularly since the 5 yr. time limit of the warranty has come and gone! I have attempted to review the other related threads to see how this situation resolved itself, but I don,t seem to find and info subsequent to the impending issuance of recall letters in7/07. How was this recall actually resolved?Have there been any major engine problems?
Yes there were engine failures from this issue. Cummins did not directly address this defect. They installed electronics on the engine which was suppose to detect a pending failure so the operator could shut down the engine before it blew. I had a neighbor in Florida with an '06 Allegro Bus who lost his engine to this defect. He had the electronic sensor installed but it did not work. The failure occurred in 2010 at about 35k miles.

The only way to know is to obtain the engine serial # of any coach from this time period. Some are of the opinion that if it was going to be a problem, it would have blown by now. I don't subscribe to that theory.
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Old 03-04-2014, 11:22 PM   #14
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Interesting about a failure at 35k. I spoke to Cummins NW some time after the recall was issued & inquired about failure conditions. NW reported zero failures in motorhomes (Monaco had the most rigs w/this condition), and 100% of the failures they did have came prior to 10k miles with the vast majority prior to 5k.
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